Star Wars RPG--What Happened?

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Issue #8 may be the last issue! Publication of SWG is being "suspended;" no new subscriptions are being accepted (news on WoTC site). If #8 isn't last, then I bet we see the last few issues released around the time the revised core rulebook is released in May.

 

[Corinth]

Maybe it's because the average SW fanboy isn't a gaming geek.

 

[Ranger REG]

I think it had a lot to do with the old d6 WEG version. People who really wanted to role-play Star Wars probably already had a copy of the d6 game.

Well, WEG have the advantage of publishing the first Star Wars RPG. Even among that group, some of the old-timers are refusing to upgrade to the second edition (to use your cliche, "why fix it if it ain't broken?")

Which is probably why WotC is not even going to try to compete in that arena where hardcore gamers will not switch to the new rules.

So they aim to attract the new gamers ... or better yet, the large network of D&D gamers who have gotten the Third Edition.

When the d20 version came out, its close ties with D&D probably turned a lot of people away from it.

And then there are those who are frustrated with the WEG d6 system, find new light in the new d20 version.

As for being close to D&D, only if you can accept Star Wars for what it truly is: not a hardcore science fiction that nerds like us would read and mainstream would avoid (at least back in the late 70s), but an epic space opera fantasy, complete with mystical figures that possesses power that is neither magical nor psionic (debate about this later).

I loved the WEG version. I'll try the d20 version but, unless it is really good, I probably won't stick with it. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

To respond with a cliche: Don't knock 'til you try it.

But I guess it is easier to criticize about something new, even if you don't try it yourself.

At least with WEG, I did tried it ... and find it not to my liking. But that's me.

 

[Jhamin]

Maybe it's because the average SW fanboy isn't a gaming geek.

Then what could/should have been done to change this?

 

[LostSoul]

To respond with a cliche: Don't knock 'til you try it.

But I guess it is easier to criticize about something new, even if you don't try it yourself.

At least with WEG, I did tried it ... and find it not to my liking. But that's me.

Wait... at what point did I criticize the d20 version? My point was that all the gamers who would have bought a Star Wars game probably already have. Non-gamers probably wouldn't buy a game book (just like I wouldn't buy a book written in Greek). You might get some crossover traffic from the D&D fans eager to see thier system in another setting; and you might turn people away for the same reason (geek snobbery).

I'm just shooting in the dark here, though.

I don't think I will move away from d6. Not because I'm expecting to be disappointed with d20, but because I liked d6 so much.

 

[LostSoul]

We had a long running d6 WEG SW campaign - and I did not play a jedi.

During the big combat scenes the 3 Jedi didn't even remotely need the two scubs, after they hit 5-6d. Even WotC Proofreaders get more respect than we did. The most demoralizing game I have played. Never understood the attraction to it.

This could be a problem, although I never really saw too much of it. Probably because there was only 1 Jedi character in all the campaigns I ran or played in. Even then, each character had a niche to fill - including the Bounty Hunter, geared for combat.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Never played WEG star wars, I am currently playing in a d20 star wars campaign set in on tatooine during the rebellion and we are all having a blast! The party consists of a human "bodyguard" (soldier), a Twilek "diplomat" (noble), a Rodian "proto-bountyhunter" (Scout), a human "fallen noble" girl (13 year old noble/scoundrel) and a wookie soldier. We've just been joined by two new players, an Ithorian shaman (force adept) and a human "technician" (scoundrel).

IMO style of play more than mechanics gives the "feel" of star wars - our SW game feels very, very different to our D&D games, regardless of how similar the mechanics may be.

Space combat rules may or may not suck - we haven't had a need for them yet and we'll deal with that problem when it arises.

Cheers

 

[Tsyr]

Half of what made the WEG special was that they didn't try to hang off the golden branch of balance like their life depended on it. Have you SEEN the movies? A Jedi _WAS_ an uber character who could mow through average characters like no tomarow. Do you honestly think Han Solo, Chewbaca, or Lando Calrisian would have had a chance against luke if he had gotten turned to the dark side spontaneosly? I don't. There is a reason why Darth Vader was so feared in the empire, and it's not just because he was the empire's right hand man.

Yes, if you have a party of 4 jedi and two normals, it kinda sucks. But it was never meant to be played that way. Jedi, even during the hight of the old republic weren't THAT common, much less after the imperial age, and I never understood why multiple jedi would be following around a group of essentialy mecenaries anyhow.

 

[Henry]

I think we may be off on the wrong trail here.

The Star Wars game is apparently not meeting sales expectations. The game mechanic problems we are discussing here are surely not helping, but do you think that the problems with prestige classes are really keeping your average fan from buying the book?

What is keeping the average "gotta get all the neat stuff" movie fans from picking up the game?

In reverse order: There is still a difference between "Movie Goers" and "RPG fans who go to movies.

RPG's must sell themselves on their own merits, not by being attached to the movies. For instance, I sincerely doubt there were very many role-players converted by the Pokemon Emergency! Adventure Game. If I recall correctly, sales of the Pokemon RPG were actually slow. The Pokemon Brand did not attract many card players and TV watchers to the RPG. The concept of RPG's must sell itself first, and then the Brand Name kicks in. Typical avid wargame and board-game players I believe would be more attracted to RPG's first before the "Movie going and TV watching public.

Second: It is the same thing with the Players of the WEG game. I would be curious to know if Star Wars RPG from WEG was their first RPG experience. Something makes me doubt it, but I could be wrong. There were games like Talisman, and of course D&D, or other RPG's at the time which provided a stronger impetus to RPG's, and likely built from one of these types of game. A board-game with RPG elements would likely be a better seller, because it can bridge that gap from "game" to "RP game."

I believe that a Star Wars Board game, with some RP Elements, Such as things like Hero Quest or Talisman, would be a better way to go. It bridges the gap more effectively. It is only rarely that a designers hits that perfect balance of "Simple and addictive" that draws non-gamers like flies. How many non-gamers were drawn to Magic: the Gathering like flies. During Con's like Gencon, and origins, I met TONS of people who had never played an RPG before in their lives, yet were at Wargame and RPG con's just to compete in tournaments. It suprised many of them when confronted with RPG's for the first time seriously. Several people I talked to (young teens, specifically) had never even heard of RPG's (although they HAD heard of D&D! ) and several others in their twenties thought it was just "too geeky."

 

[Aaron2]

Remember when ...

When the first SW RPG came out, there was nothing really going on in the SW scene. No toys, no books (at least not like now), no comics etc. Plus, its was at the time that all the kids who saw SW when it came out were now in their late-teens/early 20s, the prime RPG years. It was truly a case of excellent timing. The WEG people (unfortunatly) got to write whatever they wanted and soon the game became a major source of SW canon (as crappy as it was) so it appealed to SW fans who weren't gamers.

On the other hand, the new d20 SW RPG came at a time of star wars product glut/overload. Kids in the prime gaming years didn't grow up on the movies so they don't care. Us old timers already have the WEG game and don't really need a new one (nostalgia?). Since most of the source material is written already in multiple places or on the internet, the sourcebooks aren't all that appealing to non-gamers.


Aaron