D&D 4E Star Wars Saga Edition as preview of 4e?

[delericho]

I really like most of what I've heard about this game, and am definately looking forward to it. (I've always been of the opinion that d20 could do Star Wars very very well, but I was bitterly disappointed with both the previous versions.)

I wouldn't object to many of the ideas being rolled into D&D 4e, although there are also some I would rather not see (and it's not necessarily the case that I don't like them... but some things work well for Star Wars and not so well for D&D).

However, I don't think Saga Edition is really being used as a 'test vehicle' for proposed 4e mechanics, any more than any other book is. Which is to say, I suspect everyone at Wizards now has 4e in the back of their minds with every product release, but I take Wizards at their word when they repeatedly tell us that they have no plans, and are not currently developing 4e.

 

[Felon]

Sounds like some of you may have more info on the new system than the article provides. I don't, but just looking at the wookie, here's what I notice:

• Merged skills (Stealth and Perception)
• Endurance as a skill and not a feat (I'm the first and only person I know of who ever suggested that)
• 26 hit points with a 15 Con? Even with 3dX, that's a lot of HP. Maybe Endurance helps.
• +0 BAB for the scout (in D20M, it's pretty rare for a character to have the BA progression that many warriors in D&D take for granted)
• Insanely high saves for a 1st-level character by D&D standards
• Threshold equal to Fort save
• No Def bonus listed (use Ref save instead?)
• 5 ranks in skills at 1st level

 

[MerricB]

Sounds like some of you may have more info on the new system than the article provides. I don't, but just looking at the wookie, here's what I notice:

[*]Insanely high saves for a 1st-level character by D&D standards

If we assume they're target numbers, that makes them 10+D&D save...

So:
Ref +3 (Dex +0, +3 bonus), Fort +4 (Con +2, +2 bonus), Will +2 (Wis +1, +1 bonus)

###

If Chalkazza attacks himself with a vibroblade...
... he needs a 10 to hit himself. (+3 to hit, 13 Ref save)
... he does 5-15 damage. On a 14+, the threshold is hit and he goes down one notch on the condition track (-1, -2, -5, -10, unconscious).
... on average, it will take 3 successful blows to knock him out.

If Chalkazza attacks himself with his bowcaster...
... he needs a 13 to hit himself (+0 to hit, 13 reflex save)
... he does 3-30 damage. The average is 16.5 damage, so this will normally hit the threshold.
... on average, it will take 2 successful shots to knock him out.

cheers!

 

[M.L. Martin]

Sounds like some of you may have more info on the new system than the article provides. I don't, but just looking at the wookie, here's what I notice:


[*]26 hit points with a 15 Con? Even with 3dX, that's a lot of HP. Maybe Endurance helps.

Max on those first three dice, but Con only gets added once. So, 3*8+2=26.

[*]Insanely high saves for a 1st-level character by D&D standards

Actually, those are fairly low. What it appears has happened is that saves now work like AC/Defense did--a fixed number the attacker rolls against. The description of the Force Haze talent reinforces this.

[*]5 ranks in skills at 1st level
[/list]

Well, +5 plus stat bonus to skills--ranks are a thing of the past, according to other statements by the designers.

 

[Keldryn]

I suppose I am alone in thinking that there should be less, not more, character customization should there be a 4th Edition. Make it a class based game again, not a point based one.

If more within-class customization options existed such that there were a lot fewer "add-on" options like feats and prestige classes, I would endorse it most enthusiastically. Think of it as a more structured customization.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I think SW Saga is in some ways a test run for 4e. I like the idea of characters starting out strong but increasing in power more slowly per level. I think the best parts of D&D are the mid levels, so finding a way to string those out would be a good idea IMO.

I'd like a *huge* overhaul of D&D magic, but I think it's pretty much here to stay.

I'd be up for having three base classes and using talents/feats to distinguish them (a la True20):

Warrior:
Fighter
Barbarian
Ranger
Monk
Paladin
Knight
etc.

Expert:
Rogue
Scout
Bard
Spellthief
etc.

"Magic" user (their powers have different trappings, but all use the same basic system):
Wizard
Sorcerer
Cleric
Psion
Favored Soul
etc.

In a subsequent book (maybe the DMG), WotC can release a class construction system so that DM's can make classes for their own settings.

 

[Arkhandus]

what do you think of these as possible directions for 4e to go as well?

No.



*sharpens cleaver menacingly*

 

[Technik4]

Nice, I agree it could be a preview of things to come.

This is what I would predict for 4e's base classes:

Fighter (with feats or talents to customize and unique abilities (beyond Weapon Spec). Barbarian could easily be folded in with appropriate talents)
Rogue (again talents could emulate a bard with spell-like abilities and bardsong rather than true spellcasting progression)
Cleric (with a talent tree for druid)
Wizard (with a talent tree for sorcerer)
Monk (with many talent trees)

Ranger and Paladin would be 'advanced classes' or 'prestige classes', though there would be an option to start with them at level 1 (by having special talent trees and taking levels of fighter).

And a new class, a hybrid Fighter/Wizard class that gained a reduced spell-casting progression, but essentially had access to all of the wizard/sorcerer spell lists.

So you could really boil it all down to 6 classes: Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard, Ftr/Wizard, and Monk. Talent Trees could take care of all the base class customization (along with feats).

 

[Professor Phobos]

Personally, I'd like to see the following classes...

Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Priest. The basic four we know and love.

Then I'd like to see "Leader" or "Bard" or something like that, to match up with Charisma, and be basically focused on social capability. Con men, bards, Kings, mercenary commanders, Barbarian chieftains, etc etc. A character who gets by as much by convincing others to do things for him as doing things himself. There are lots of nifty tricks you could grant such a class.

For a sixth class, I have no idea, but the fact that each of the previous five match up nicely with an attribute almost demands a sixth for symmetry's sake.

 

[trancejeremy]

Eh - I've never understood the point of having a class based system, if you have a small number of classes. Why not just go all the way and go classless? I realize things can get a bit ridiculous with having dozens, if not 100s of classes (even base ones), but still, that's far more interesting (IMHO) than just a few that can be customized a lot.