Star Wars Saga Edition?

[Felon]

I've read several people say its got tons of errata and some mechanical issues. Any truth to that?

IMO< this is actually one of the more questionable aspects of SWSE. They introduced a new skill system that gives a flat +5, and half your level adds into all checks, and you can still take 10. Now with that being the case, it's pretty clear to me that they should've reconsidered some of the things you can do with a DC15 or 20 skill check. Personally, I'm not so crazy about a jedi spamming the "search your feelings" bit with his Use the Force skill to know whether or not his every action will have favorable or unfavorable consequences, or using "sense your surroundings" to pop enemies out of hiding constantly.

I think folks are rushing to heap praise on SWSE without taking a granular look at things. It's a great system, but there are things that should be raising a few eyebrows too.

 

[Numion]

I bought the book and it looks nice. Force Grip isn't a dark side power (the choking grasp thingy)? I mostly remember seeing vader use it.

"Is Qui-Gon Jin gonna have to choke a bitch?"

 

[Felon]

At last, something that reflects movies first and EU a (distant?) second!

Y'know, it has occurred to me that, having played my share of Star Wars (d6 system and True20, not SWSE), I'm not sure that reflecting the movies is really that huge of a consideration, because my gamers ultimately didn't want to play their characters like the characters in the movies.

Just as we accept that D&D wizards want to crank out far more firepower than Gandalf ever did, and accept that D&D barbarians can tear apart things that would have left Conan soiling his loincloth, I think the designers probably need to concede how a Star Wars game will be played differently from the source material that inspired it. From my experiences, the number of folks who want to play Princess Leia or 3PO are far-exceeded by folks who want to play Boba Fett or HK-47--and of course, that's leaving out all of the folks clamoring to create a cast of jedi warriors.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very glad SWSE provides tools for folks to play diplomats and lightly-armed smugglers along with combat gods. However, that's just for starters. I think they need to go deep on expanding the selection of gadgets and weapons, which basically take the place of magic items and spells for the option-hungry players (again, I'm talking non-jedi). Iin general, I'd like to see the wealth of options for building characters that you get in D&D, so they don't fall into the same trap as D20 Modern where feat chains ultimately provided for only two combat styles: dual-pistols or assaut rifle. For the players who live to tinker with builds, that can be stifling.

 

[robberbaron]

Reasonable, but on the flipside they need to make sure SWSE doesn't head down the splatbook route that, to my mind, has devalued Core D&D.

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

I think folks are rushing to heap praise on SWSE without taking a granular look at things. It's a great system, but there are things that should be raising a few eyebrows too.

Seeing as how I've been running this pretty much since it came out, I disagree. This is probably one of the best, tightest game systems I've seen since Mutants&Masterminds and True20. I agree with Plane Sailing in that there's a fair amount of EU that should be chucked in favor of how the movies showed things working. And the movies are far more prevalent than the various EU stuff, both the good (Zahn, Knights of the Old Republic) and the bad (anything KJ Anderson scribed).

As for the "issues" you raised, particularly the "spamming" of certain aspects of Use the Force, that's something a GM can easily counter. And can a far amount of things be done at DC 15 or 20? Yeah, but that's true of any d20-based game system. But the way I see it, someone that hyperspecializes in a skill should be able to hit those DCs at a low level, especiall as DC 10 is the default for an average, not-overly complicated task. Point of view I guess on that point.

 

[Numion]

Don't get me wrong, I'm very glad SWSE provides tools for folks to play diplomats and lightly-armed smugglers along with combat gods. However, that's just for starters. I think they need to go deep on expanding the selection of gadgets and weapons, which basically take the place of magic items and spells for the option-hungry players (again, I'm talking non-jedi). Iin general, I'd like to see the wealth of options for building characters that you get in D&D, so they don't fall into the same trap as D20 Modern where feat chains ultimately provided for only two combat styles: dual-pistols or assaut rifle. For the players who live to tinker with builds, that can be stifling.

I'm by no means expert on the book; just bought it yesterday. But I do agree with you here. I was a bit disappointed that it was missing detailed equipment rules for Boba Fett type character - I mean the basics were there, but I was expecting as similar treatment for that type of stuff as there was for force powers. Instead the equipment chapter was kinda afterthought. If I run it, I'd like to see something else than 4 padawans in the group.

I guess it's good point to expand from, since there seemed to be enough PC options to make non-Jedis viable.

 

[Numion]

As for the "issues" you raised, particularly the "spamming" of certain aspects of Use the Force, that's something a GM can easily counter.

The book states though that "spamming" the force is the path to the dark side. Light side doesn't use force for tasks easily done without, while dark side users use it at every opportunity. I know, an RP restrictment, but that's what it says.

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

I'm by no means expert on the book; just bought it yesterday. But I do agree with you here. I was a bit disappointed that it was missing detailed equipment rules for Boba Fett type character - I mean the basics were there, but I was expecting as similar treatment for that type of stuff as there was for force powers. Instead the equipment chapter was kinda afterthought. If I run it, I'd like to see something else than 4 padawans in the group.

I guess it's good point to expand from, since there seemed to be enough PC options to make non-Jedis viable.

Well, there is a Web Enhancement which adds in the Tech Specialist-type stuff from the RCR on the WotC site, doing so by way of a Scoundrel talent tree and a feat called Tech Specialist.

Equipment in the first two versions of SWd20 got exact same level of treatment as they got in Saga Edition, a quick descriptive blurb and a chart listing cost and effects for weapons and armor. It wasn't until Arms&Equipment Guide for RCR that any sort of rules for modifiying equipment appearted. And since there isn't a lot in the movies about haracters tricking out their equipment beyond the Fetts' armor and the Falcon, understandable that it got cut from the main book, since has been stated over and over the writer's main focus was "movies first, EU second."

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

The book states though that "spamming" the force is the path to the dark side. Light side doesn't use force for tasks easily done without, while dark side users use it at every opportunity. I know, an RP restrictment, but that's what it says.

Didn't have the book handy when I posted that, but "overusage/reliance on the Force being a path to the dark side" is part and parcel of GM'ing to keep overzealous players from abusing the system. Much like games that include clairvoyant type effects advise giving the PCs the same exact vision if they keep asking about the same thing over in over; pretty much you get one shot, after that it's reruns

 

[Felon]

As for the "issues" you raised, particularly the "spamming" of certain aspects of Use the Force, that's something a GM can easily counter.

The whole "the GM can change anything he doesn't like" bit 's a standard-issue rebuttal for any criticism of a ruleset, and a weak one at that as it simply sidesteps the criticism rather than addressing it. The spamming of the force powers was just a couple of examples of the greter issue, so we're talking about more than just one or two bits of GM hand-waiving.

But the way I see it, someone that hyperspecializes in a skill should be able to hit those DCs at a low level.

It's not "hyperspecializing" though. It's just taking your +5 from having trained the skill and taking 10.