Star Wars Saga Edition?

[Imaro]

I have to side with Felon on this one.
Your response does not address the significant gulf between the catching the feel presented in the movies and the mechanical implications of how the rules play it out.

I'm not understanding what the "mechanical implications" are. PC A uses the force to see if opening a door would be a favorable or unfavorable in the next 10min...okay unfavorable...he still doesn't know whats behind the door, and if that's the way he has to go then there's no getting around it. The door could...
a. Have an alarm on it.
b. have a powerful enemy or enemies behind it
c. be set with explosives
d. Have a video recording system on the other side monitored by a guard
e. Lead into a room wired with explosives on the floor
f. Lead into a room with a hostage whose infected with a contagious disease.
g. etc.

How is this anymore "unbalancing" than Perception? And that's if the roll is succesful. It gives no specifics and doesn't change the fact of whether a PC has to do something or not. In fact I could really see PC's getting frustrated with this power and not using it often as there's no implicit guarantee of exactly what the "unfavorable" circumstance is.

 

[maddman75]

Yes you can...but you have to have the "Severing Strike" talent from the Jedi Knight Duelist Talent Tree. It allows you to sever a hand, arm or leg.

This seals it - The Force is with this RPG.

 

[BryonD]

I'm not understanding what the "mechanical implications" are. PC A uses the force to see if opening a door would be a favorable or unfavorable in the next 10min...okay unfavorable...he still doesn't know whats behind the door, and if that's the way he has to go then there's no getting around it. The door could...
a. Have an alarm on it.
b. have a powerful enemy or enemies behind it
c. be set with explosives
d. Have a video recording system on the other side monitored by a guard
e. Lead into a room wired with explosives on the floor
f. Lead into a room with a hostage whose infected with a contagious disease.
g. etc.

How is this anymore "unbalancing" than Perception? And that's if the roll is succesful. It gives no specifics and doesn't change the fact of whether a PC has to do something or not. In fact I could really see PC's getting frustrated with this power and not using it often as there's no implicit guarantee of exactly what the "unfavorable" circumstance is.

You know, it isn't a good sign when you have to put words like "unbalancing" (quotes yours) in someone else's mouth.

Your point about doubt of success seems to indicate that you didn't read Felon's post which lead to my comment. A DC15 with a +5 Trained bonus and the option to Take 10 isn't exactly going to fail often. Approximately never ever is more accurate. Being able to automatically gain this little insight every time you bother to spend a free round on it (effectively free outside combat, in other words: in the majority of expected uses) flies directly in the face of the dramatic "I've got a bad feeling" moments in the movies and turns it into a boring assumption.

 

[Imaro]

You know, it isn't a good sign when you have to put words like "unbalancing" (quotes yours) in someone else's mouth.

Your point about doubt of success seems to indicate that you didn't read Felon's post which lead to my comment. A DC15 with a +5 Trained bonus and the option to Take 10 isn't exactly going to fail often. Approximately never ever is more accurate. Being able to automatically gain this little insight every time you bother to spend a free round on it (effectively free outside combat, in other words: in the majority of expected uses) flies directly in the face of the dramatic "I've got a bad feeling" moments in the movies and turns it into a boring assumption.

I apologize if I misrepresented your point...I thought when you stated "mechanical implications" you were refering to the mechanics of the Use the Force skill vs. other skills, I was mistaken. However I still don't see this as any different than making a perception check every round to see if, on the off chance, you spot something...by RAW you could do it, but how often does it happen in real play?

The power isn't really that useful in a practical way...it's very vague and is only concerned with what could happen in the next 10min. With the -2 to skill modifier and +2 to DC the GM could decide upon there is still a chance for failure (though admittedly not at higher levels...though this kind of fits the prequels, where higher level jedi are always sensing something or another). I just don't see players using this the way you're making it seem...it doesn't provide enough info for it to be a valuable enough crutch to continuously lean on. YMMV of course.

As far as the skills in general , there are alot of things you can't do untrained and being trained in the skill(of which you have a finite number) is the only way to get a +5...also the example DC's seem about right...take for example...

Climb at DC 15: Surface with adequate handholds and footholds (natural or artificial), such as a very rough natural rock surface or a tree; an unknotted rope.

In my mind this seems perfectly fine with what a character( in the star wars universe) under no pressure should be able to accomplish easily, especially if they've been trained in it. I find it silly in D&D that, without an attribute bonus in Str (average Str), at first level you can't climb a tree without making a roll???

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

In my mind this seems perfectly fine with what a character( in the star wars universe) under no pressure should be able to accomplish easily, especially if they've been trained in it. I find it silly in D&D that, without an attribute bonus in Str (average Str), at first level you can't climb a tree without making a roll???

Children younger than 12 years old have a +10 competence bonus when climbing trees. Your average first level character is too old for such things. In fact, they are still reflecting the -20 peer expectation penalty you pick up somewhere around 13 or 14.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I find this so wrong as to be incredibly silly to my ears. RCR Star Wars had an imminently balanced system for force powers that felt like it had no relation to the movies, and thus was rejected by many people for the simple reason :

It did not feel like Star Wars.

Feel is paramount for a cultural phenomenon. D&D is not a translation of LOTR, the tradition of D&D while drawing upon fantasy literature is separate from Conan, Tolkein, Leber etc.
Not so for Star Wars.

Well said. I'm much more intersted in the game being faithful to the source material than to balance or making all character types perfectly equal. I don't want generic space with Star Wars elements tacked on, I want the game to play like Star Wars.

 

[Klaus]

I have to side with Felon on this one.
Your response does not address the significant gulf between the catching the feel presented in the movies and the mechanical implications of how the rules play it out.

When you have a character Trained in Use the Force always Taking 10 before every action, the GM is free to describe the character as a slightly "off" person, always pausing before doing anything, as if listening to someone whispering in his ear.

PC1: Darran, aren't you gonna have your coffee?
PC2: No yet. I have a bad feeling about it.
PC3: Aw, no, there he goes again... It's just HOT! You get used to it! Are you afraid of getting your tongue burned?
PC2: ... Maybe...
PC3: Well, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads...
PC1: SHUT UP! SHUT UP! IF I HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOU QUOTING YODA AGAIN, I'LL...
PC2: ... the Dark Side is calling to you, my friend... Be wary...
PC1: SHUT UUUUUUUUUP!!!!

 

[maddman75]

If I had a player abusing this, I'd *always* have something nasty coming for them. Eventually they could talk to a master, who would explain that their fear was drawing conflict to them, rather than just seeing if it was there.

If you look hard enough for a problem, you're going to find one.

 

[Numion]

If I had a player abusing this, I'd *always* have something nasty coming for them. Eventually they could talk to a master, who would explain that their fear was drawing conflict to them, rather than just seeing if it was there.

If you look hard enough for a problem, you're going to find one.

I think the book handles it adequately. Light side doesn't use force in every instance. Dark side does. So if the players would constantly searched their feelings like paranoid wimps, it would lead them down the path to dark side.

 

[Felon]

I find this so wrong as to be incredibly silly to my ears. RCR Star Wars had an imminently balanced system for force powers that felt like it had no relation to the movies, and thus was rejected by many people for the simple reason :

It did not feel like Star Wars.

I'm scrambling over your post to see what you found so incredibly silly, and it seems that you don't actually specify anything, and your counter-point has no relation to what I said (which was not about the force, but rather about options for non-force users).

If "feeling like Star Wars" is just being a cheap imitation of the movies, then IMO that's a pretty sad excuse for an RPG...and a silly one.

Well said. I'm much more intersted in the game being faithful to the source material than to balance or making all character types perfectly equal. I don't want generic space with Star Wars elements tacked on, I want the game to play like Star Wars.

OK, you've got my full attention.

I've already asked the question in my previous post, and while I got a few snide snipes, nobody actually stepped up and rose to the occasions. So I'll ask it again: what does "play the game like Star Wars" mean?

Does "play the game like Star Wars" mean you're just imitiating the same party structure that was in the movies? Only using weapons seen in the movies? Only fighting rancors and wampas or some other monster with a Lucas trademark symbol by its name? Only using the same force powers, fighting the same ships, fighting the same menagrie, and visiting the same locations seen in the movies? Because limiting yourself to recreating scenes from the movie is a pretty lame excuse for an RPG.

Is it impossible to take the game in a any kind of new direction without making it a "generic space" game? Personally, I don't see why the "Star Wars" feel is suddenly lost if you try to innovate.