Star Wars Saga, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[MoogleEmpMog]

What RPG has ever given advice contradicting these?

Burning Wheel explicitly contradicts "GMs can't cheat." It makes a big deal out of spreading the power much further around the table, up to and including encouraging players to call the GM if he steps outside the rules. Burning Empires actually includes formal limits on the GM's resources.

Essentially all RPGs with conflict resolution rather than task resolution mechanics incorporate a strong element of metagaming; in something like Primetime Adventures, the entire gameplay aspect is purely metagame to the roleplaying. RPGs (or RPG-like wargames, if you don't consider them "real RPGs") that encourage tactical, Gamist play often don't discourage players from using player knowledge as well as PC knowledge, any more than Warhammer Fantasy Battles exhorts players to only read one army book. Any RPG that makes extensive use of puzzles encourages metagaming; I'm pretty sure at least some of those explicitly encourage challenging the players, not their characters.

 

[Felon]

Good Thing: Raising a character's Int modifier allows the character to train a new skill.

Good Thing: Track is not a feat, just a trained-only function of the Survival skill.

So-So Thing: Stealth is stated to only require cover or concealment "usually". That's not exactly what I'd like to see, but it's an improvement over D&D's notion that it's flat-out impossible to creep up on someone (or creep past them) without those conditions.

Bad Thing: No way to train skills not on your class list (so, with regards to tracking, it's effectively limited to scouts because nobody else has Survival on their class skill list).

Not-So-Sure Thing: Is there any PC out there who won't have Initiative and Perception trained?

I'm sure this is covered somewhere but I can't find it: is it possible to have no trained skills due to a negative Int modifier?

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

I'm sure this is covered somewhere but I can't find it: is it possible to have no trained skills due to a negative Int modifier?

Only place anything like that is referenced is under the Beast and Non-Heroic classes at the back of the book, where is cites a minimum of 1 trained skill. Would probably be safe to assume the same holds true for the heroic classes.

As for you comment regarding trained in Initiative and Perception, answer would be not many. Though I did finish converting a Human merc from RCR to SECR, and he's only got Initiative as a trained skill; character and player were both noted for being pretty oblivious, but at least the SECR version of the character can find his buttocks with both hands. The player... debatable.

 

[arscott]

Well, I don't think that the fact Vader can't pick up Palpatine and throw him into the reactor shift is not just a "nuance." Or that you have to be 3rd level or higher if you want to cherrypick skills.

I think that's more a problem with the way they built Vader than with the grapple rules. Any time we see him in conflict that's not a lightsaber duel, Grappling seems to be his preferred tactic.

 

[Ranger REG]

I need to look that up. Someone actually used the phrase, "REAL ROLEPLAYING" in the Star Wars book? THIS I gotta see.

I think everyone is overexaggerating the "real roleplaying" part. IMNSHO, their attempt to find flaws in the book using this example is overreaching.

 

[LostSoul]

IMNSHO, their attempt to find flaws in the book using this example is overreaching.

Well, in my case I think the game is pretty awesome, though I have yet to play. But it looks really cool and I want to try it out.

If the worst thing in the game is advice... the game is pretty good.

 

[Ranger REG]

If there is anything you should take from the advice in the book is that you shouldn't hide behind the rules or go through the session speaking entirely in metagaming. You're supposed to be and participating in a story, not a series of random events and encounters. There has to be a point to the adventures.

 

[Particle_Man]

I am extremely impressed with the condition track. It replaces ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, nausea, poison, energy drain, paralysis, etc. I think I will adopt it for any D&D game I run, since it gets rid of the "cascading effects" problem to a large extent.

I wonder if prestige classes and multi-classes are tactically mandatory, or if one could get by as a 20th level Jedi.

 

[Baby Samurai]

My players and myself had our fortnightly D&D Planescape campaign yesterday, and we ported over the following changes form Saga:


-Charge is a standard action

-Withdraw is a move action.

-No 5 ft. step.

-Diagonal movement is 2-2-2-2, rather than 1-2-1-2.

-No iterative attacks – replaced by Double Attack, Triple Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, Rapid Strike, Dual Weapon Mastery etc

-No confirmation rolls for critical hits – a longsword automatically critical hits on a natural 20, a rapier automatically critical hits on a natural 19, or 20, and a keen rapier automatically critical hits on a natural 18, 19, or 20.

-Half character level as bonus damage on attacks.


There was definitely more movement, and the combats were tactically more interesting. There were still plenty of full attacks, but no one missed the diminishing return iterative attacks, Double and Triple Attack worked out great. The lack of the 5 ft. step and the new withdraw action as a move action was so cool and elegant. And the fact that charge is a standard action makes for some interesting choices and is more fun for everyone.


The party consists of:


-CN drow psion (seer) 10

-CG half-orc barbarian 2/ranger 10

-N human spirit shaman 12

-LG half-celestial human psychic rogue 8

-NG gold dwarf divine bard 4/fighter 1/battlesmith 1/deepwarden 2/dwarf paragon 1/hammer of moradin 3


They went up against:


-4th level drow warriors (x10)

-6th level drow chaos monks (spring attack build x4 and grapple build x4)

-9th level drow druid

-8th level drow sorcerer

-1st level illithid chaos monk

 

[Stalker0]

Is there any difference between using 2 weapons and taking the feat to reduce the penalty to -5 or taking double attack and take the -5 to attack for 2 attacks besides the flavor?