Star Wars Special Edition vs. the Original (new insights!)

[Villano]

I have no problems with the changes to Empire (I never noticed the editing glitches which were mentioned) or RotJ, but I hate the changes to A New Hope. The new Jabba scene I didn't like at all. Jabba looked fake (well, faker ) and, as others have pointed out, it only serves to rehash the Greedo conversation. Have you ever watched the deleted scenes on a dvd and realized that those scenes were cut for a good reason? That's how I feel about the new Jabba. It's just better without.

The "Greedo shoots first" change is just stupid. Actually, that, along with the ewoks, should have clued us in to the "kid-ified" direction Lucas was going with Phantom Menace. I suppose that we should be thankful that all the blasters haven't been replaced by walkie talkies.

And I agree with Whisperfoot. My big problem isn't so much the changes, but that the originals apparently aren't going to be released. It's like Ted Turner "improving" Casablanca by colorizing it...and then destroying all the black & white prints.*

Anyway, what I'm really worried about is that Lucas has shown that he won't hesitate to alter his films. It makes me wonder if he's going to go back and change things to bring the originals more in line with the prequels. Is Qui Gon's ghost going to be added to the Anakin, Yoda, Obi-Wan scene at the end of Return? Will the flying bug guy who owned Anakin (whatever his name was) be edited into Jabba's palace? Where will it end?

As to complaining about Lucas? That's funny. On one hand, you'll be accused of not being enough of a fan to overlook his faults, and on the other, you'll be accused of being a fanboy.

Lucas has every right to have Greedo shoot first, just as Joel Schumacher had the right to make Batman & Robin campy and full of crotch shots and rubber nipples. And we, as the movie going public, have just as much right to shake our heads in disbelief and say, "Dear God, that's stupid!"

On a side note, you'd think the Lucas money machine would want to have several different versions released. Look at X-Men and Daredevil. You release a dvd and then release the super special edition a year later. Personally, I think it sucks, but it makes money.


*Actually, this situation reminds me of Disney and Fantasia. When they were working on Fantasia 2000, people were quoted as saying that it was going to be an ongoing work. The original would be forever shelved and 2000 would be the "official" Fantasia. When the next version after that was finished, 2000 would be shelved, etc., etc.. That means that all the cartoons that were cut to make room for new ones would be gone forever.

Not sure what happened with that, but I think Disney backed off on it, keeping each Fantasia in circulation.

 

[Kai Lord]

I particularly get miffed by people who seem to act like "they" know better what does and does not fit into the Star Wars universe and condemn Lucas for changes that do not fit their "canon.

*shrugs* If Lucas thinks that Greedo shooting first is the best version of that scene then yes, in that instance I do know what fits into Star Wars better than Lucas himself.

His new version of ESB is also inferior to the version that I hold as "canon." Lucas has every right to tinker with his own property. I do find it ethically wrong to destroy the originals, but as far as which version of ESB is superior, yes, I do "know better" than Lucas.

If I was given Executive Producer rights to make a new SE of ESB, it would be vastly superior to the current version. Would it match his revised vision? Of course not. Would it better match his original vision? Without question.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

*shrugs* If Lucas thinks that Greedo shooting first is the best version of that scene then yes, in that instance I do know what fits into Star Wars better than Lucas himself.

His new version of ESB is also inferior to the version that I hold as "canon." Lucas has every right to tinker with his own property. I do find it ethically wrong to destroy the originals, but as far as which version of ESB is superior, yes, I do "know better" than Lucas.

If I was given Executive Producer rights to make a new SE of ESB, it would be vastly superior to the current version. Would it match his revised vision? Of course not. Would it better match his original vision? Without question.

Well that is where you are wrong in my opinion. You may think you would create a better movie and parts of it might be more enjoyable but canon really is nothing more than what Lucas wants it to be. It is his property after all.

 

[Diavolo]

no matter how you look at it, or who goes and makes changes to the movie, there will always be people out there that will complain about the movie. george lucas said this is the way he wants the movies, and therefore that is the way they are. that makes them canon. no ifs, ands, or buts about it. nuff said

diavolo

 

[Kai Lord]

Well that is where you are wrong in my opinion. You may think you would create a better movie and parts of it might be more enjoyable but canon really is nothing more than what Lucas wants it to be.

Lucas only determines canon if you let him. The whole point of canon is so that geeks who've never met have a common ground to reference. That may be good for you, but for me Star Wars isn't something I need to agree about on the internet. It was a cultural experience that I shared with millions in 1977, 1980, and 1983 and sporadically for 20 years after.

Lucas changing scenes on a whim in '97 doesn't make any of the story up to then invalid, he just created an "alternate canon." I had a lot of fun watching the first SE on the big screen in '97, and its fun to reference and revisit, but it isn't a new gospel. That's just silly. Just a retelling of one of my favorite stories.

Its like saying the Disney version of Cinderella is "canon" over the Brother's Grimm version. Ridiculous. Canon is the one you're currently watching or reading, because they each represent different styles and intentions.

It is his property after all.

And D&D belongs to Hasbro. So do you wave off 20 years of role-playing stories because they weren't DM'd by Hasbro's CEO?

 

[Villano]

Lucas only determines canon if you let him. The whole point of canon is so that geeks who've never met have a common ground to reference. That may be good for you, but for me Star Wars isn't something I need to agree about on the internet. It was a cultural experience that I shared with millions in 1977, 1980, and 1983 and sporadically for 20 years after.

Lucas changing scenes on a whim in '97 doesn't make any of the story up to then invalid, he just created an "alternate canon." I had a lot of fun watching the first SE on the big screen in '97, and its fun to reference and revisit, but it isn't a new gospel. That's just silly. Just a retelling of one of my favorite stories.

Its like saying the Disney version of Cinderella is "canon" over the Brother's Grimm version. Ridiculous. Canon is the one you're currently watching or reading, because they each represent different styles and intentions.

I have to disagree with your analogy. A better one would be the direct to video sequels of their classic movies Disney has churned out lately. "Officially" there may be a sequel to Cinderella, but many fans may not wish to acknowledge it because they see it as simply a crudely animated, money grabber.

Another Disney example would be Aladin. At the end of the film, Aladin and the Princess were married. On the "official" tv series and at least one of the sequels, they weren't. This ignoring of continuity doesn't necessarily mean that the results will be bad (I actually enjoyed the tv series), but you can understand people not liking it.

Okay, let's look at it this way. Russell Mulcahy directed the original Highlander. The sequels (and tv series) pretty much took everything established there and threw it out the window. Mulcahy may have the right to go back and re-edit the first film to bring it in line with the continuity of the later films, but that doesn't mean that people will like it, it will be good, or that it's even a good idea in the first place.

I think that instead of trying to play with retroactive continuity, filmmakers should just try to stick to the continuity already established. Going back to rework things never really pans out. Comic book often try to do it and it only causes a backlash from the fans and much confusion. Wonder Woman's mother was Wonder Woman in WW2? Why is it that no one's mentioned that before? People are just suddenly remembering her now?

The clone of himself that Spider-Man destroyed wasn't really a clone? Then who did he kill? Some innocent person? No, the clone was a real clone? Now the clone's not dead, but alive? Wait a minute, the clone isn't the clone, but the original Spider-Man is? What happened to the original and who have I been reading about all these years? Wha...?

 

[Darrin Drader]

I think that instead of trying to play with retroactive continuity, filmmakers should just try to stick to the continuity already established. Going back to rework things never really pans out. Comic book often try to do it and it only causes a backlash from the fans and much confusion. Wonder Woman's mother was Wonder Woman in WW2? Why is it that no one's mentioned that before? People are just suddenly remembering her now?

There are cases where I just don't see this as being possible because the original continuity is just so bad. Take Star Trek V. The fact that they could reach the center of the galaxy in a day or so means that Voyager should have been home in practically no time. Galactica 1980 was sooo bad that everyone who still cares just agrees that it never happened.

 

[Kai Lord]

Galactica 1980 was sooo bad that everyone who still cares just agrees that it never happened.

Exactly. Just like Highlander 2 or Alien: Ressurection, the ESB:SE is completely dismissable. Anyone can choose to accept or reject it, including Lucas (who obviously accepts it), but his say so only makes it official as a common reference through which future merchandising by Lucasfilm is concerned. Completely irrelevant to the actual experience of viewing or enjoying either version of the film, or the saga as a whole.

 

[Reef]

Exactly. Just like Highlander 2 or Alien: Ressurection, the ESB:SE is completely dismissable. Anyone can choose to accept or reject it, including Lucas (who obviously accepts it), but his say so only makes it official as a common reference through which future merchandising by Lucasfilm is concerned. Completely irrelevant to the actual experience of viewing or enjoying either version of the film, or the saga as a whole.

It's only irrelevant to the actual experience of viewing either version if both versions are available. By destroying the originals, Lucas has removed the ability to choose from the fans. Except for those of us who still have the original versions on vhs.

I'm rather flabbergasted he just doesn't give people a choice. Look at the Jaws dvd as an example: it updated the sound to stereo (and 5.1 I think), and yet still included the original mono track for those who prefer it.