Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy.

It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good.

I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team.

Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their hand cut off?

Luke lives in Ireland, eh?

Question: WHY was there a map to Luke, and why was it split into two? I feel like I missed something. For that matter, why a map and not just some coordinates? Seems like a random puzzle set up for the sake of it.

 

[CapnZapp]

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy.

It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good.

I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team.

Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their hand cut off?

Luke lives in Ireland, eh?

Question: WHY was there a map to Luke, and why was it split into two? I feel like I missed something. For that matter, why a map and not just some coordinates? Seems like a random puzzle set up for the sake of it.

I wouldn't think too hard. It's the usual Star Wars plotting.

Finns plan is the most honest depiction of star wars logic yet "I have no plan, let's just use the force" Hilarious!

 

[Raunalyn]

I really didn't like how so much of the movie was a retread, a mishmash of old bits from Episodes 4-6. The orphan on the desert planet. The rescue while dressed as a stormtrooper. A droid carrying secret data. An untrained kid just handed a lightsaber kept in a chest. Deactivating a shield generator on a planet. A trench run to blow up a base. The older mentor figure dying. Going off to train on a remote planet with the last Jedi.

I just watched Episode 4 the other night...the chest that Rey got the lightsaber from looks almost exactly like the chest that Obi-wan had Anakin's lightsaber in.

Don't get me wrong...I loved the movie...it was fun! But the homage to episode 4 was a bit heavy handed at times...

 

[Neonchameleon]

My take on the whole thing is that it was a remake that could have actually been better than Star Wars dragged down by trying to pretend to be a sequel rather than a remake. And as a sequel rather than a standalone it made The Phantom Menace look good.

Rey was fine, and certainly wasn't a Mary Sue. She was poking with the light sabre as if it was a staff (the fight choreographer was far more on point than they were in any of the original trilogy) - and she was dealing with a badly wounded and part-trained Sith, not with Vader. And whoever said she put the TIE into the gunsights wasn't watching. The guns were locked forward rather than unable to move at all - so she did what she needed to, which was a sharp turn so she could get behind the TIE rather than the other way round.

And most of what [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] has praised I also saw. Making it an enjoyable standalone - and with the sense not to have Ren try to go head to head with Vader (although he could have tried to slow down his dialogue when wearing the mask for a more intimidating and more bluffy effect). Of course the argument could be that Ren was trying to be Anikin, but that's a whole different can of worms.

But the planet destroyer felt like cheap and unnecessary drama to me (rescuing Rey felt like it had far more emotional investment) and the super-weapon could have been cut entirely while just making the story a tighter one. Turning Han back into a straight smuggler felt as if it just undercut the character; with all his Rebellion contacts he would have been better off as a blockade runner - same basic job but with humanitarian cargoes. Progress leaning on his roots rather than straight regression. And don't get me started on the confusing mess that was the Republic/Rebellion/Resistance.

And I'd have appreciated not thinking "Han's about to do an Obi-Wan isn't he? Yup. There he goes." Also does anyone else think Snoke's about 6" tall like that fear demon from Buffy?

 

[billd91]

I agree with what has been said about General Phasma. She really didn't need to be there. They could have given all her lines to that other generic British villain (no, not that other generic British villain, the OTHER other generic British villain!) and the movie would be exactly the same. I guess they just needed a minorly threatening faceless authority figure to be the punch line of the "trash compactor" joke.

Except that we've learned that Gwendoline Christie is contracted for Episode VIII, so Captain Phasma's reason for being there, aside from the trash compactor event, is to become a recurring enemy - probably looking out to revenge the trash humiliation. You can't have a recurring enemy that only occurs once. I have absolutely no problem with an actor's part being small in one movie and expand it later in a follow-up. In fact, I prefer it when looking at the development of franchises.

 

[Umbran]

I'm late to the discussion, but reading Umbran & Jester discuss plot, I think has helped me understand my displeasure with the movie. Thanks to both of you for stimulating my ideas.

SHORT VERSION:

The First Order SHOULD HAVE ATTACKED the Resistance Base.

That's using hindsight and viewer-knowledge.

You attack the Resistance base first only if you're more worried about short-term tactical threats. And they weren't, because as far as they could tell, there was no threat! Starkiller Base was perfectly safe from Resistance assault. The Resistance could be safely ignored for the larger strategic goal. Except that Han Solo conceived and executed a piloting feat nobody does - coming out of hyperspace *that close* to a planetary body. It just isn't done. It is as if Han pulled a secret weapon out of his butt, and you can't expect the First Order to have considered that possibility.

Now, why is the First Order jumping back and forth like that? That's simple, when we think about it....

It seems like the First Order (and by extension, Snoke) wants to destroy the Republic and take over, right? Do you want to do that with a protracted war? No! Starkiller Base is a way to do that quickly and cleanly - destroy the capitol and then while the Republic thrashes about with it's head cut off, mop up and move in. Simple, clean, effective. To be honest, maybe Starkiller isn't mobile - it may only really be intended for one shot.

Except for one thing: Starkiller or not, a Jedi probably poses the only credible threat to the plan, and Snoke's life. Snoke has learned from Palpatine - being in power only makes you a target of Jedi. Snoke's best bet is to not be too much of a threat until *after* he's killed Luke. He can't even use Starkiller without alerting Luke - Jedi can sense the death of a planet over interstellar distances.

But, the Resistance getting a copy of the map throws a zero-grav spanner into the works. Major attacks on bases will not assure that the Resistance does not alert Luke to the situation - one guy in an X-Wing slipping by, and the jig is up. The plan only survives by retrieving the map before the Resistance has seen it. There's some thrashing around trying to do that, but ultimately Kylo Ren fails to accomplish it. Then, there's no point in waiting. Snoke must assume Luke is going to find out one way or another. He sets off Starkiller, taking out the highest priority target first, and pulls Kylo Ren back for training, because that Jedi may take a while, but is on his way....

 

[JediSoth]

Right, and a new megaweapon might be fun. But a planetoid super weapon that shoots big beams and destroys planets but is blown up by a small fighter? That's when it crosses the line from trope to "been there, done that".

<snip>

To be fair, Starkiller base wasn't destroyed by a small fighter. It was destroy by the massive amounts of energy it was storing in preparation to fire. The bombs detonated by Chewie and the damage done by the X-Wings merely disabled the regulator thing that kept the energy in check.

It was actually pretty well-defended, too. The bombs didn't damage it enough to impair its function, and the initial attack by the X-Wings didn't do enough damage to impair its function. It was only because the bombs blew open a large enough opening for a crazy pilot to fly inside that they were finally able to do enough damage (a Star Warsian contrivance to be sure, but these types of movies run on that).

 

[Jester David]

To be fair, Starkiller base wasn't destroyed by a small fighter. It was destroy by the massive amounts of energy it was storing in preparation to fire. The bombs detonated by Chewie and the damage done by the X-Wings merely disabled the regulator thing that kept the energy in check.

And the Death Star wasn't blow up by a single proton torpedo. The energy in the reactor exhaust port just started a chain reaction which caused it to blow up.

The effect is the same: small fighter + planetoid megaweapon = explosion

 

[ZzarkLinux]

You attack the Resistance base first only if you're more worried about short-term tactical threats. And they weren't (...) Starkiller Base was perfectly safe from Resistance assault. (...) Except that Han Solo executed a piloting feat nobody does - coming out of hyperspace *that close* to a planetary body.

Now, why is the First Order jumping back and forth like that? It seems like the First Order (and by extension, Snoke) wants to destroy the Republic and take over. Starkiller Base is a way to do that quickly and cleanly (...)

Except for one thing: Jedi probably poses the only credible threat to the plan, and Snoke's life. (...) He can't even use Starkiller without alerting Luke - Jedi can sense the death of a planet over interstellar distances.

But, the Resistance getting a copy of the map throws a zero-grav spanner into the works. (...) There's some thrashing around trying to do that, but ultimately Kylo Ren fails to accomplish it. Then, there's no point in waiting. (...)

I'm still parsing through this. I snipped the quote for brievity sake.

What you say makes sense now. So they were trying to add focus to Hans & Snoke. There were motivations and assumptions outside the movie which back this up. Overall a good goal I suppose.

My uncle & I are casual fans, and we missed almost everything you mention during the viewing. The force is weak in us :-( We were led to believe the movie was about Rey, Fynn, and escaping the Order.

I wish they could have dropped some hints about the greater OverPlot earlier in the movie. Yes there is a time limit, and the child-audience needs a shorter time limit. Maybe break it up into two movies, so the Rey/Fynn romance didn't feel so forced.

Thanks for the insight

 

[Ovinomancer]

Mime too, sadly. I still maintain that mentioning a thing people remember is a long way from comedy genius! I reckon in a few years, you'll cringe at that. Callbacks can be used by expert comedians to great effect (Stewart Lee does this very well), so I acknowledge it is a valid comic device. This is not a good example of it though.

Combine that with my above theory on who Phasma was supposed to be, I'd be willing to wager that her survival was a late-written line. I may be wrong - we'll probably never know - but I stand by my bet that in a few years you'll wonder why you found that funny.

What an odd thing to say. How can you can be so sure that everyone else will agree with your tastes, if just given enough time?

 

[Morrus]

What an odd thing to say. How can you can be so sure that everyone else will agree with your tastes, if just given enough time?

Same way anybody makes a bet, I guess. One wagers based on one's estimate of the outcome, and then says "I bet X happens".

It's not that unusual, I promise you.