Ed_Laprade
Adventurer
I've watched very little Stargate (the movie, a dozen or so scattered episodes), but whoever came up with this idea is... not too bright. Planets move, solar systems move, everything moves - all the time!
STARGATE UNIVERSE #1 & 2:AIR/Season 1/2009
- Thread starter Truth Seeker
- Start date
Jack7
First Post
EL, I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth but I think the implication of what was meant was an object moving at Faster than Light hyperspeed velocities. That is a relatively static gate, one at relatively slow motion in normal space-time would be unable to connect with another stargate which was at hyper-velocities relative to itself.
Which may partially explain why this address has nine chevrons, unlike all of the others. It is unique not only as to destination or end-point, but unique because the end point is moving at FTL speeds relative to all other stargate locations.
Then again we can't really be sure that the ship was indeed at hyperspeed when it took on the human crew. That might have begun shortly after they arrived and before they could verify that they were actually aboard a ship. We just don't really know yet.
But it's an interesting idea to consider given how the stargates normally operated, placed in relatively static locations. We do know that there was an attempt to dial Earth while the ship was at FTL travel, but the attempt failed. Did it fail through lack of power, because it is impossible to lock onto other gates while the ship is at FTL speeds, because Rush had already apprised it of the situation and the ship decided to over-ride any other actions, because Earth was simply out of range, etc? That we don't know yet either. All we really know is that the Earth attempt was aborted due to redirection to another target.
It's also interesting, given the above possibilities, that gate to gate contact at normal spacetime seems to trigger a countdown clock which limits that particular gate to gate contact being open, or the ship remaining in the area, or both. I have some ideas as to why this is, but it will be interesting to see what the crew conjectures it might mean and why things operate like that.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
I get the vague impression that Jack7 at least is hooked. 
For what its worth, creating a stargate connection between the Pegasus gate and Earth required a large amount of energy. The planet they were on was supposedly a kind of giant reactor fueling the gate, so I take that to mean that they just do not have the energy to dial back to Earth. It's basically a one-way transport unless you bring some kind of Super-ZPM or whatever or your own reactor-planet with you.
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Otherwise, I liked it for a start. The atmosphere is different from the other Stargate shows. That might be a problem for the regular SG audience. It certainly makes the show more interesting to me for the moment. It had a vague Battlestar Galactica vibe. More complex relationships, crew conflicts, civillian/military split, bleak situation.
We'll see if it can keep it up and also maintain its audience.
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O'Neill didn't look good. I guess Anderson is getting old.
For what its worth, creating a stargate connection between the Pegasus gate and Earth required a large amount of energy. The planet they were on was supposedly a kind of giant reactor fueling the gate, so I take that to mean that they just do not have the energy to dial back to Earth. It's basically a one-way transport unless you bring some kind of Super-ZPM or whatever or your own reactor-planet with you.
---
Otherwise, I liked it for a start. The atmosphere is different from the other Stargate shows. That might be a problem for the regular SG audience. It certainly makes the show more interesting to me for the moment. It had a vague Battlestar Galactica vibe. More complex relationships, crew conflicts, civillian/military split, bleak situation.
We'll see if it can keep it up and also maintain its audience.
...
O'Neill didn't look good. I guess Anderson is getting old.
Jack7
First Post
If you say so, then I Must be. Get it... Must... oh well, nevermind. It was Ridcully of me to say that.
Seriously, I really don't know if I'm hooked or not but I can say this: I much prefer fictional media (books, artwork, films, radio plays, graphic novels, etc.) where there are mysteries, where there are no obvious answers or numerous possible answers, or where you have to decipher for yourself what might really be going on - to any media where things are simply presented to you and the authors, writers, artists, etc. just explain things to you as you go along. I guess that's the Dick in me, but I'd much rather do it myself. At one point SG-1 became so formulaic to me, despite the fact that it was often well-written, that the story was basically, present new object or situation X, then research and investigate old obscure reference pertaining to X, then present explanation A for X so that audience cannot possibly misunderstand exactly what you intend for them to see. Then, if no real explanation is available or you're still afraid they won't get it then myth or magic it up so everyone understands this is an analogue for Merlin and Camelot. Get it folks, Merlin = Ancient = Magic = Wunderscience Supersword. Or, Ori = Origin. Thanks guys for the clever tip-off, I wasn't really following you the first time around. It was all sooooo complicated.
I don't mind magic at all, I like myth a lot, but when you turn everything into a "no need to figure this out, let's just throw in a mythological reference and some magical light effects, and there you go" then the story becomes more child's fairy tale with built in crib-notes than modern retelling of ancient myths with magic fairy dust for the wonder of things you can't explain. (I got nothing against magic or not explaining things, but if you're not gonna explain things rationally, then don't turn them into cheap props with stargems and unicorn horns for controls levers either. Just leave them unexplained, and let the consumer make of them what needs to be made.)
I also agree with you and others about the Battlestar Galactica references in many respects. I think that show and Lost (and others like them) will have big influences on television and film in the near future, and I'm also hoping SGU will become truly viral in the future adding new dimensions of potential mystery.
Television is undergoing a renaissance at the moment and is becoming more sophisticated scientifically and psychologically, and is simultaneously becoming deeper and more meaningful mythologically, spiritually, and religiously.
I also like scientific and technological puzzles. So if they keep this up they may indeed hook me. If they're lucky in the mouth, so I won't blab so much.
Fast Learner
First Post
It was very strongly implied that shortly after they gated in, the ship jumped into its ftl mode: the color shift and stretch thing happened shortly after they all boarded, and again right before they stopped at the planet.
I could swear they said (or at least it was conjectured by some character) that the ship was indeed intended to travel really, really far away, and then be later crewed after it had reached something/passed a threshhold/etc. I don't think there's any need to guess at that, it was given to us.
I could swear they said (or at least it was conjectured by some character) that the ship was indeed intended to travel really, really far away, and then be later crewed after it had reached something/passed a threshhold/etc. I don't think there's any need to guess at that, it was given to us.
Merkuri
Explorer
In very early episodes they talked on at least one occasion about how they had to use a lot of complex algorithms to take into account the natural movement of stars and planets because they didn't have a DHD (dial-home-device, the thing you punch the gate address into), which did all those calculations in a normal gate, so technically, yes, they can connect to moving gates since all gates move in one way or another.
I was referring to how gates are usually on planets, and that the gate address determines which gate to use by taking six points in space (constellations), drawing lines between them, and using the intersection of those lines, which means that, relative to those constellations, the gate is pretty much static. It's at least limited to one star system.
I have not watched every single episode, but I've spent the last few months watching up to the end of season 7 of SG-1 on Hulu, and as of that point I believe the only time we ever saw a gate on a ship receive a wormhole was when that ship was in orbit around a planet with a gate address. The ship-bound gate couldn't establish a wormhole unless it was near a planet that had a gate.
This doesn't seem to be the case with Destiny. The gate on that ship seems to be special (as evidenced by the fact that it actually looks different, and that they needed a ninth chevron and a hell of a lot of energy to dial into it). Somehow the Ancients got it to allow incoming wormholes without them knowing where exactly in space the ship was. Either that, or the ship was waiting for a crew in that one place for a very very long time, since I seem to recall the gate address for it was very very old.
Maybe I just remembered that instead of thinking it up myself.
I can't be expected to keep track of such things. Yes there was. The two heavily injured characters were in beds. I believe there were even blankets on the beds. I seriously doubt a group of people escaping an exploding planet would have through to bring mattresses with them. I remember the beds because when I saw them I thought, "Wow, I wonder how old those were. Did the vacuum of space preserve them so they didn't get all moldy and decayed?" I also recall seeing benches and seats. Not directly in front of the control panels, but they were there. I think the observation deck had couches.
There just wasn't any furniture in the gate room, which I think is reasonable. Especially considering the way everyone entered at the beginning of the show it's probably best to keep the gate room as sparsely furnished as possible.
I think I might actually go back to Hulu and watch the episode again to see if there are any other "clues" to pick up on.
Now that's a sign of a good show if I want to go back and watch it again within days of seeing it the first time.
Cergorach
The Laughing One
Three options:
1.) They've perfected a gene therapy, injection and you've got the 'Ancient' gene.
2.) The 'Destiny' is an old ship, a very old ship. Chances are that it was send on it's journey before they equipped all their equipment with gene sensors. Maybe it's only on a couple of very secure systems.
3.) The 'Ancients' assumed that they might not be the race that would be using the 'Destiny', they would Ascent before that or their genes wouldn't be the same by the time they would use the ship.
This was happening in SG: Atlantis
Overall I was happy with it but could not help seeing Rush as Dr. Smith! He may be an a$$ but why do they distrust him soooo much, sure he keeps things to himself but he also seems to be VERY proactive. He is a leader, where most of the rest want to debate actions or whine about them.
I don't think the show will fall into the ST:V rut and hoped they learned lessons from SG: Atlantis.
Jack7
First Post
I didn't see this when they first arrived. Of course at that time my wife and kids were watching with me (when it first came on) and so it's possible one of them distracted me so that I didn't notice it. I did notice the waveform distortion at the end, after attempting to dial Earth, so, it would be consistent if it did happen at the beginning also (I take your word it did indeed happen) to think that on both occasions the ship was at normal space-time in order to make use of the Stargates. In that case it would mean the ship does apparently have to be at normal space-time to use the stargate. That would also be consistent with previous other shows, but, it still doesn't preclude FTL use of the stargate, just makes it unlikely it operates any differently based on what we now know.
I didn't hear this either, but, there were a couple of times I walked outside during the show, mainly around commercial times, because we had a full moon. I was toying with the idea of setting my telescope up and moon-gazing then, but thought the show was good enough to skip it for one night. So I didn't, but I guess it's possible I missed this conjecture while I was outside.
If it was conjectured by one of the characters (anyone know who or at what time in the show - I would like to know who said it, in what context, and what exactly they suggested - hopefully I can see this in rerun sometime) then it would be a logical conjecture, given the other evidence, and I would agree with them. It seems the most likely possibility. (I hope though it will be remembered it is, like my deductions, and the deductions of others, just a character conjecture based on the best available evidence at the moment. A likely, though not necessarily the only explanation, and certainly not the truth - that won't be known until other evidence is gathered or discovered. And I hope this show continues to follow the path of best conjecture or best possible conjectures, rather than trying to explain everything all at once. In far too many television shows the first suggestion or conjecture is just assumed to be correct, handed to the audience as the way things really are and the plot proceeds from that point on as if the initial conjecture was necessarily the only or the only correct one. It's a juvenile, even child-like way to describe problems - especially when operating within a totally alien or unknown environment - because very rarely does it happen that way in real life. It's a way for the writer to "project what he knows" through the character without any real reason for the character to really know that thing, merely because the writer doesn't want to take the time to describe events in enough detail to fully explain the real situation. I hope instead that they will discover situations and problems, consider possibilities, gather evidence, make conjectures, and discard possibilities as it becomes apparent their initial speculations were incorrect, or at best only partially correct. Which illustrates for me what also bothers me about too many television dramas, only rarely are main characters or "smart characters" seen to be wrong in a particular situation, or to have drawn the wrong conclusions, even though it is quite justifiable for them to do so given the circumstances. Stargate Atlantis, which I liked, was nevertheless especially egregious about this regarding their smart-guy and super-dooper scientist. But real scientists are never this way, and neither, generally speaking, are smart people. Being wrong is a necessary part of becoming smarter in real life. I wish more fiction writers understood that. Instead they far too often make the smart guys or the problem solvers always or very nearly always right the first time, when that almost never really happens in life. The smart guys are just the ones who won't quit when others do, or are willing to consider all possibilities when others won't. And they learn just as much from mistakes as they do from successes.)
But the idea of the waiting starship, or the starship in situ, does have a number of problems that will also need to be addressed. Like if the ship is only visited rarely then why was the life-support operational just coincidentally when the humans boarded (unless it was being tested or prepped to receive a crew, and if so, then tested by whom, and where is that crew)? Otherwise it would be a large waste of energy to run it constantly. Why was it inactive (as to motion), but had an active life-support system? Was it long abandoned - after all the assumed builders are long gone for the most part - and just sitting dead in space, but with the life support still active? That's an illogical means of operating considering power consumption rates, unless the crew had abandoned ship in an emergency and the ship had expected them to return quickly.
Another thing that is bothersome is this - was this the only type of ship like this? Was it a prototype or unique ship design, so that only one was ever built? I mention that because of the fact that as far as anyone knows yet there was only one gate and one gate location capable of dialing the ship. Why? That's incredibly risky if the ship is unique or a prototype because if anything happens to the one gate then you have in effect lost not only your means of boarding the ship, but also presumably your means of contacting an unmanned ship. If it was a manned ship then this would demand other gates so that you would have safe means of retrieving your crew if necessary. Otherwise lost or even just malfunctioning home gate and you've no way of direct contact with ship gate, and the suggestion thus far is that ship gate is ranged when dialing out. (Meaning home gate somehow picks up the slack on return gate voyages back home, or the ship as we know it is barely functioning at real capacity because of real damage or because it is simply just not fully active, or Rush is lying about on-board ship capabilities. Maybe all of those.) Surely, just as a security precaution, if you went to such expense to build such a vessel, and the mission was important at all, you would have built in redundancy means of reestablishing contact through other gates.
If there are other ships of this type or class, undertaking similar missions then naturally you could not risk them all being accessed by a single, unique stargate. That would be extremely risky. A real security threat. Either way I would not risk access to either a unique prototype or a fleet of ships through a single access point. I guess they (the writers) could say the one location for the nine chevron stargate has very unique properties, but in all of the universe, including all of the other galaxies visited by this one ship, they could not replicate conditions enough that they could only build the one peculiar portal? It seems very unlikely to me. Even more than one "Atlantis" was built, for obvious reasons. I'd build in more than one method of accessing such a ship. Even if I only built one such ship.
Interesting conjectures. For one thing they might have very well anticipated human occupation if no. 3 is correct. Something I intuitively feel is a real possibility, I just have no evidence to support the idea. I cannot say why exactly but I just feel as if either the builders, or the users, or the ship itself was anticipating the human occupation.
If 3 is not correct then where are the users of the ship, and how long ago did they make last contact. And if the mission of the ship was to place stargates in other galaxies then, and Earth was the ship departure point (I think someone aboard ship suggested it was - Rush?) then was Earth the real departure point or merely the first plotted colonization point on the starmap they accessed? (Did Rush assume the starchart he examined was the only starchart or navigational chart or the first one and that meant Earth was the departure point? If it was then was the ship built there? )
The show has a number of interesting possibilities as far as the storyline goes. I hope they continue to unfold more mysteries as often as they start reducing others.
Well, I've got to prep for flight training. See you guys later.
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