D&D 5E Starter Set Character Sheet Revealed!

[Dausuul]

+1, I neglected to bold common sense in my reply but apparently it is even less common on the interwebs. So there is it again.

Common sense says that two hours of resting should not produce better results if it's interrupted in the middle by a goblin attack. Silly rules produce silly behavior.

 

[Obryn]

Game mechanics are the means through which an unknown outcome is determined. They are neutral, and without bias. They tell you who wins in a fight, if someone jumps into a pit, or if someone's sleep spell was effective. They can't cover every possible event, but what they do cover, they must do so in a fair and un-biased manner.

The outcome of any action cannot rely on which person is performing it, to any degree beyond the real substantive in-game difference between those individuals. Otherwise, you violate causality.

Where you're losing me is that you don't need a resolution mechanic when the game's not actively being played. When you're world-building, setting-expanding, or detailing events a few continents away. If there's a clash between armies the next country over, I'm not going to game it out. If there's a construction crew building a temple, I'm not going to roll skill checks for every worker. I don't particularly need mechanics to explain how the evil wizard built a megadungeon in ancient times.

 

[Obryn]

Everyone told me 5e was going to be just like 4e so you're right, I won't play it.

As a 4e fan ... no. I don't see it. It's not like 4e in any important way. This is not a strike against it - I want Next to be its own thing, not 4.5 - but just ... no.

 

[lkj]

For what it's worth, my impression from the very beginning of this process was that they would be trying to pull the best elements of every edition into the game. They would then provide options for you to tweak it to match your playstyle (old school or otherwise). I certainly never got the impression that the game would completely reject 4e or any other edition for that matter, whether the basic or standard game or whatever. Ironically, I seem to recall a lot of discussion around here about how they had completely rejected everything 4e in the design. I disagreed at the time. Much as I'd disagree that it will now be 'rife with 4e-isms'.

But probably such discussions are academic beyond entertainment value. I've noticed that 'what 4e is' or 'what defines and old school game' elicits strong but very, very differing opinions. To me, the best part of 4e are the mechanical underpinnings. To others it seems that it is being able to have AEDU. For others, it's the warlord, etc. If not being able to exactly reproduce a warlord is a dealbreaker or if having any sign of a 4e mechanic in the game is a dealbreaker, then more power to you. I'm hoping that through feedback and playtesting, the WotC folk have found what they consider their best sweet spot (and probably recognize that there will be folk for whom it won't work). For the sake of the game, I hope they nailed it. And anyway, I'm pretty happy with the vast majority of their moves so far.

Pretty excited about it actually.

AD

 

[VengerSatanis]

The interview linked says most of the same things I reiterated about each of the books, and also, Mike Mearls' twitter account also contains lots of upcoming tidbits. But I don't know if they were managed that badly, or we are all just frothing at the chomp...

For Basic D&D, the relevant L&L: http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20140527



Not sure if you saw that L&L, but it more or less jives up with what I stated earlier. I think many people saw the name "D&D Basic" and thought "Oh, the game must be like the original D&D", rather than going "oh, this is the 5E Rules Cyclopedia." It says what they feel is the "essential" (read; most liked by players overall I suspect and simplest) subclass versions of each of those four classes, not the old school version.

Looking for the article where it talks about the DMG being able to create any earlier edition of D&D.

That's one definition of "essential". I assumed it meant the foundations of this system, the bare bones, only that which is essential. I still read it that way, except now I know different because of the pre-gen fighter sheet.

I already remember the DMG quote. Just seems weird to start in the middle and use the DMG to either add or subtract elements. Why not start at the lowest common denominator - then there's only one direction to go.

VS

 

[RotGrub]

You mean 3E, because that ability comes from 3E...

That said, I'll summarize the last 20 pages of discussion for you

1) No it doesn't mean they autoheal; they heal by resting. Like they always did. (All of the conversation up here is based around the idea that said fighter would keep resting and heal repeatedly. So, resting and healing)

2) I'm skeptical of your ability to divine an entire game system's design from a single character from the starter set. I think that might be more of "confirmation bias".

3) If you have no real desire to play the game, and are instead looking for information that will confirm your pre-existing belief that 5E will merely be like 4E, then I do not know if you will gain much from these conversations.

What page is Second Wind from in 3e PHB ? I don't see it in the 3e PHB. The 3e fighter CAN'T instantly heal himself like he can in 4e/5e. All those other books are late 3.5e/4e changes that I also rebuke.. but at least they are optional.

The onus is on you to prove 5e isn't like 4e. Everyone I play with thinks 5e is just going to be more of the same. That's the perception out there! That's the hurdle 5e MUST overcome.

I have desire to play a D&D game that isn't like 4e. Instant auto healing like SW/healing surges is one very strong indication that the game hasn't moved on from its mistakes. IMO it appears to be going in the wrong direction and because of that I won't be playing it.

Why am I here? I'm here hoping someone will prove me wrong and tell me that 5e will have the options I need to play. So far all you've done is try to justify non-magical healing. I don't care for that style of gaming. I don't play that way and I never will play that way. In fact, I don't play 4e because of it.

 

[Cybit]

Common sense says that two hours of resting should not produce better results if it's interrupted in the middle by a goblin attack. Silly rules produce silly behavior.

It is. I know that was always the issue with moving stuff to short rest; while it made sustained combat through a day feasible for many classes, and it really helps fix the 5 minute working day, it did cause a sort of weird hour schism in some cases. 3E had it in less obvious forms (IIRC, resting for 7 hours and 56 minutes meant that you still didn't get any spells back), but it's a little more blatant with this particular ability.

I am guessing there will be some sort of "X short rests per day" guideline, to be honest. They have it for long rests, makes sense for short rest.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Why am I here? I'm here hoping someone will prove me wrong and tell me that 5e will have the options I need to play. So far all you've done is try to justify non-magical healing. I don't care for that style of gaming. I don't play that way and I never will play that way. In fact, I don't play 4e because of it.

The book with the options you are looking for is still being written. DMG-November 2014 is the release.

 

[Dausuul]

I am guessing there will be some sort of "X short rests per day" guideline, to be honest. They have it for long rests, makes sense for short rest.

Yup, that's my hope. It balances short-rest abilities, it makes reasonable sense within the game world, and it's simple enough to put in the basic game. It even provides a "dial" that can be used to adjust PC staying power.

 

[Cybit]

Why am I here? I'm here hoping someone will prove me wrong and tell me that 5e will have the options I need to play. So far all you've done is try to justify non-magical healing. I don't care for that style of gaming. I don't play that way and I never will play that way. In fact, I don't play 4e because of it.

Um. 5E is not out yet. You understand that you're asking people to do something that is not possible, right?

As stated by Mearls; all editions of D&D can be retrofit back into 5E with the DMG (even THAC0).