D&D 5E Starter Set Character Sheet Revealed!

[Mistwell]

WHAT? Fighters can now auto heal without magic? That's funny.

I thought 5e was going to be different than 4e.

The first few packages looked very promising. oh well.

If that one minor ability (which was also in 3e for what that is worth) is the only factor in you playing or not playing 5e, the one thing that tells you if it is like 4e or not, then you were never going to play the game anyway.

 

[VengerSatanis]

Certainly

Didn't mean to pick on you with the screaming, but there are a lot of people jumping to somewhat extreme conclusions. For instance...there are a grand total of two things on that character sheet (Action Surge & Second Wind) that are from 3E, and generally speaking, assuming they are not biased against those effects from other sources / reasons, I think you will find people who are brand new to D&D and RPGs as a whole tend to like those types of effects.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...-Dungeons-Dragons-With-Designer-Mike-Mearls.2

Relevant passage, emphasis mine:


The idea would be that they play the game, and then they see if they like it on a general level. Very few brand new to RPGs as a whole folks are going to care about mechanics like that, because those are very small parts of a much bigger game they're getting their arms around for the first time. If they play it, and they like it, but that part bugs them, then that's where the customization aspect of the game comes into play.

Like a board game in that you pick it up and start playing. Yeah, I like that idea.

It's just... well, it was just a surprise is all. Maybe if the 5e team had done a better job of managing expectations and said something like, "The free online Basic version of D&D won't have as much newfangled stuff as the PHB and DMG, but it will have a few feats and powers and skills. Those who prefer old school D&D will be able to use those Advanced books to tweak their game either back to something more OSR compatible or forward into 3/4e territory."

That would have explained things and given everyone an idea of where we'd be mid-July. Maybe someone else can find a quote that resembles the above, but I can't remember reading anything quite like that and I was reading all the L&L articles, excerpts, interviews, etc.

At the end of the day, it's not a deal breaker for me... I just didn't like being told one thing and shown something different.

VS

 

[Redbadge]

Fighters have always been able to auto-heal without magic. From the 3e SRD:

[h=2]Healing[/h] After taking damage, you can recover hit points through natural healing or through magical healing. In any case, you can’t regain hit points past your full normal hit point total.

[h=5]Natural Healing[/h] With a full night’s rest (8 hours of sleep or more), you recover 1 hit point per character level.

 

[RotGrub]

If that one minor ability is the only factor in you playing or not playing 5e, the one thing that tells you if it is like 4e or not, then you were never going to play the game anyway.

Everyone told me 5e was going to be just like 4e so you're right, I won't play it.

Based on the first playtest package I thought otherwise, but I now stand corrected.

I have to wonder how many other major abilities/mechanics in 5e would make General Cluster.... blush.

 

[VengerSatanis]

If that's an actual, serious concern for your table...find another group to play with.

Life is too short to have to deal with powergamers that are that silly about using loopholes in the game to play the system.

Fortunately, I doubt that's a real concern. Punpun and the bag of rats was never really used at people's tables, and I doubt this would be either. It's covered by the common sense rule.

Nope, you can't just brush that off. Don't blame powergamers or powergaming for something that's incentivized into the rules. If there was a rule where any PC could say, "Abracadabra" and it would kill any foe, the designers should expect that some players will use it from time to time (if not constantly). It's not for the GM to forbid players from using it. The onus is on the system.

Back when I was playing The Bard's Tale on my Commodore 128, I could push the "z" button (if I recall correctly) and a stone golem or something like that would instantly join my party and whip bad guy ass. That was completely broken and I took advantage of it because I was about 12, it was a video game RPG, and TPKs were rampant. Should the equivalent be a feature in 5e? If it was and players used it, does that automatically make them powergamers? If so, then I'd say there are more powergamers playing tabletop fantasy RPGs than non-powergamers.

VS

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Game mechanics are just the means through which the in game narrative is constructed. They tell you if the party beat up the orcs, if the fighter jumped a pit, and if the wizard's sleep spell was effective. They don't and can't cover every conceivable fictional event that happens in the game world.

Game mechanics are the means through which an unknown outcome is determined. They are neutral, and without bias. They tell you who wins in a fight, if someone jumps into a pit, or if someone's sleep spell was effective. They can't cover every possible event, but what they do cover, they must do so in a fair and un-biased manner.

The outcome of any action cannot rely on which person is performing it, to any degree beyond the real substantive in-game difference between those individuals. Otherwise, you violate causality.

 

[Cybit]

Like a board game in that you pick it up and start playing. Yeah, I like that idea.

It's just... well, it was just a surprise is all. Maybe if the 5e team had done a better job of managing expectations and said something like, "The free online Basic version of D&D won't have as much newfangled stuff as the PHB and DMG, but it will have a few feats and powers and skills. Those who prefer old school D&D will be able to use those Advanced books to tweak their game either back to something more OSR compatible or forward into 3/4e territory."

That would have explained things and given everyone an idea of where we'd be mid-July. Maybe someone else can find a quote that resembles the above, but I can't remember reading anything quite like that and I was reading all the L&L articles, excerpts, interviews, etc.

At the end of the day, it's not a deal breaker for me... I just didn't like being told one thing and shown something different.

VS

The interview linked says most of the same things I reiterated about each of the books, and also, Mike Mearls' twitter account also contains lots of upcoming tidbits. But I don't know if they were managed that badly, or we are all just frothing at the chomp...

For Basic D&D, the relevant L&L: http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20140527

Basic D&D is a PDF that covers the core of the game. It’s the equivalent of the old D&D Rules Cyclopedia, though it doesn’t have quite the same scope (for example, it won’t go into detail on a setting). It runs from levels 1 to 20 and covers the cleric, fighter, rogue, and wizard, presenting what we view as the essential subclass for each. It also provides the dwarf, elf, halfling, and human as race options.


But the best part? Basic D&D is a free PDF. Anyone can download it from our website. We want to put D&D in as many hands as possible, and a free, digital file is the best way to do that.


If Basic D&D is the equivalent of the classic Rules Cyclopedia, then the three core rulebooks are analogous to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. Want more character options? Pick up a Player’s Handbook. Looking for more critters for your campaign? The Monster Manual has you covered. Want to sculpt a unique campaign? Pick up the Dungeon Master’s Guide. Still, Basic D&D is the true heart of the game and could easily provide a lifetime of gaming.


At the launch of the D&D Starter Set, Basic D&D will include the material needed to create characters and advance to 20th level. In August, with the release of the Player’s Handbook, Basic D&D will expand to include the essential monsters, magic items, and DM rules needed to run the game, along with the rules for wilderness, dungeon, and urban adventuring. (The Starter Set already covers the aspects of these rules that you need to run the included campaign.)

Not sure if you saw that L&L, but it more or less jives up with what I stated earlier. I think many people saw the name "D&D Basic" and thought "Oh, the game must be like the original D&D", rather than going "oh, this is the 5E Rules Cyclopedia." It says what they feel is the "essential" (read; most liked by players overall I suspect and simplest) subclass versions of each of those four classes, not the old school version.

Looking for the article where it talks about the DMG being able to create any earlier edition of D&D.

 

[RotGrub]

Fighters have always been able to auto-heal without magic. From the 3e SRD:

[h=2]Healing[/h] After taking damage, you can recover hit points through natural healing or through magical healing. In any case, you can’t regain hit points past your full normal hit point total.

[h=5]Natural Healing[/h] With a full night’s rest (8 hours of sleep or more), you recover 1 hit point per character level.

lol... grasping for straws eh... haha..

My 3e fighter does not have the ability to instantly auto heal hit points.

I guess you're trying to justify it with the healing rules that are applicable to all classes. Of course you are completely ignoring all the variant healing rules and all the other popular versions of D&D.

In this version he can heal more than a cure light wounds spell! IMO, that's laughable. "No MR cleric don't heal me.. I can grunt and instantly heal all my wounds"

 

[Cybit]

Everyone told me 5e was going to be just like 4e so you're right, I won't play it.

Based on the first playtest package I thought otherwise, but I now stand corrected.

I have to wonder how many other major abilities/mechanics in 5e would make General Cluster.... blush.

You mean 3E, because that ability comes from 3E...

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...et-Revealed!&p=6317449&viewfull=1#post6317449

That said, I'll summarize the last 20 pages of discussion for you

1) No it doesn't mean they autoheal; they heal by resting. Like they always did. (All of the conversation up here is based around the idea that said fighter would keep resting and heal repeatedly. So, resting and healing)

2) I'm skeptical of your ability to divine an entire game system's design from a single character from the starter set. If you wish to learn more about the game and its mechanics, I would suggest you either visit the playtest materials that were publicly made available, or wait a couple of more weeks until Basic D&D comes out.

3) If you have no real desire to attempt to learn the game and its' rules, and are instead looking for information that will confirm your pre-existing belief that 5E will merely be like 4E, then I do not know if you will gain much from these conversations.

Also, regarding the rules discussions going on here about short rests and long rests:

http://www.catthulhu.com/rant-why-people-dont-play-rpgs/

 

[VengerSatanis]

but you also run the risk of turning off new players who want to be able to do something "cool" on their action.

right now I'm playing a 1e game, and to be honest, I would lose my mind as a fighter (all you do is attack)... while playing an gray-elf cleric/magic-user the lack of options in cleric spells (god clerics sucked in 1e) is driving me nuts!

I'm getting a sense of dejavu. Maybe it's just that I've witnessed this exact argument dozens of times over the last couple months. With old school D&D, you don't have to "just attack" as a fighter - or any other class. Describe what you want to do and the DM will either give you options, adjudicate, make you roll something, and/or describe what happens as a result of your drop down from a ledge while plunging your sword into the Ogre's skull.

It's not a feat, power, skill, or at-will/encounter anything. Just something you roleplay.

VS