D&D 5E Starter Set Character Sheet Revealed!

[DDNFan]

Temp HPs are awful for a Second Wind mechanic, because the best time to get temporary HPs is before you take any damage at all.

You'd have to rename it to "First Wind."

The fighter in my group has it, and it's pretty bad since it costs an action to use.

Now with them adding more stuff that uses this "bonus action" aka minor action, the game has moved one step closer to 4th edition. It's getting dangerously close now, because it the PHB level 1 fighter can get lay on hands without even reaching 3rd level as an eldritch knight, or taking a feat to have access to Cure Wounds, then we have an insane incentive for mages to multiclass into fighter for two levels.

I've built a battlemage, all you need are two levels of fighter, then five levels of mage, then three more of fighter (in whichever order), and you have a supremely tough character who can pretty much win any one on one battle vs an enemy spellcaster due to con and str saves as well as much higher HP, a nova capability which is the only way in the game to cast two spells in one round (three if you include swift), or a spell and a normal series of attacks as a followup.

Blasting two sculped and empowered fireballs in a row is pretty much guaranteed to wipe the floor with any number of monsters, and those that are left are going to have a very hard time finishing off the PC with the highest defenses of the group. Getting a concentration / constitution saving throw onto your saves list is the icing on the cake for mages to multi into fighter.

 

[doctorhook]

The fighter in my group has it, and it's pretty bad since it costs an action to use.

Now with them adding more stuff that uses this "bonus action" aka minor action, the game has moved one step closer to 4th edition. It's getting dangerously close now, because it the PHB level 1 fighter can get lay on hands without even reaching 3rd level as an eldritch knight, or taking a feat to have access to Cure Wounds, then we have an insane incentive for mages to multiclass into fighter for two levels.

I've built a battlemage, all you need are two levels of fighter, then five levels of mage, then three more of fighter (in whichever order), and you have a supremely tough character who can pretty much win any one on one battle vs an enemy spellcaster due to con and str saves as well as much higher HP, a nova capability which is the only way in the game to cast two spells in one round (three if you include swift), or a spell and a normal series of attacks as a followup.

Blasting two sculped and empowered fireballs in a row is pretty much guaranteed to wipe the floor with any number of monsters, and those that are left are going to have a very hard time finishing off the PC with the highest defenses of the group. Getting a concentration / constitution saving throw onto your saves list is the icing on the cake for mages to multi into fighter.

Honestly, I'm really looking forward to 5E, but your cynicism is really harshing the new-release fun. Can't we save the optimizing until after we've opened all of our presents?

 

[Paraxis]

OP means Original Post, or Organized Play. It can't mean yet a third thing on these boards now too!

The OP's statement about how in OP the fighter action surge ability is totally OP sure is on point.

 

[DDNFan]

Honestly, I'm really looking forward to 5E, but your cynicism is really harshing the new-release fun. Can't we save the optimizing until after we've opened all of our presents?

Sorry I love D&D Next as a whole, but there are parts that are so infuriatingly bad. Which were noted by playtesters. As a player and sometimes-optimiser, I think Action Surge is great, it takes a fun part of 4th ed (action points), and makes it a fighter-only pseudo encounter power. Well, let's figure 1/3 encounter power, since you don't get to take an hour rest after each 30 second skirmish in a real dungeon, no matter how many people say it does, it depends entirely on the DM. But when I DM, I would limit multiclassing, even with high stat prerequisites for reasons like this.

You can't even cast two spells in one round with haste spell cast on you. Giving a class feature that reproduces a much better haste (haste only ever gives one extra attack, not doubles your base number of attacks or allows two full spells cast in one round), at level 2, is quite obviously overpowered. I think it's a great ability for a single classed fighter, for a nova round. Once you get 3 attacks per round at level 11 (I've played it, it is amazing), with great weapon fighter and a reach weapon, you can open a can of 6 attacks at double damage each whoop _ss and destroy. OTOH, a level 9 wizard / 2 fighter could just drop a delayed blast augmented fireball then teleport out and be back home in time for breakfast.

If you calculate the additional HP granted by second wind, it could give anywhere from ~90 to 150 extra HP, basically doubling a fighter's HP. That's a ton more than the difference between a fighter and a barbarian (d10 vs d12). And the fighter has better AC and more feats and stat boosts too, for his trouble.

 

[marleykat]

The fighter in my group has it, and it's pretty bad since it costs an action to use.

Now with them adding more stuff that uses this "bonus action" aka minor action, the game has moved one step closer to 4th edition. It's getting dangerously close now, because it the PHB level 1 fighter can get lay on hands without even reaching 3rd level as an eldritch knight, or taking a feat to have access to Cure Wounds, then we have an insane incentive for mages to multiclass into fighter for two levels.

I've built a battlemage, all you need are two levels of fighter, then five levels of mage, then three more of fighter (in whichever order), and you have a supremely tough character who can pretty much win any one on one battle vs an enemy spellcaster due to con and str saves as well as much higher HP, a nova capability which is the only way in the game to cast two spells in one round (three if you include swift), or a spell and a normal series of attacks as a followup.

Blasting two sculped and empowered fireballs in a row is pretty much guaranteed to wipe the floor with any number of monsters, and those that are left are going to have a very hard time finishing off the PC with the highest defenses of the group. Getting a concentration / constitution saving throw onto your saves list is the icing on the cake for mages to multi into fighter.

We get your disdain for 5e but why are going Evocker as a F/M that's just silly. And what 10th wizard would ever just let you dictate the terms? This is why white rooming and theorycraft is more then next to useless. I could come up with other logical reasons and scenerios to bust your weak version of a F/M but why? It's pointless.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Please do not let this devolve further. Stick to the character sheet.

 

[DDNFan]

We get your disdain for 5e but why are going Evocker as a F/M that's just silly. And what 10th wizard would ever just let you dictate the terms? This is why white rooming and theorycraft is more then next to useless. I could come up with other logical reasons and scenerios to bust your weak version of a F/M but why? It's pointless.

It's not theorycraft at all, I've DMed such a battlemage character (lower level, I think 7 + 2) using PC rules and used him both against the PCs and against other NPCs and being able to double down on fireball in one round is extremely powerful. It's scary stuff. Fun, but when you realize that after you play the game a while, being able to double down on spell combos is very potent and opens up tons of possibilities that are normally not open to you. This will only get worse over time as more spells get published.

I bet any money it will be errata'ed one day, to not function with spells and only grant an extra attack action. Even doubling the number of melee or ranged attacks is solid. It makes sense for your class feature to make you have a burst of damage with weapon attacks. It doesn't make sense that the best and scariest mages in the whole game are always as a result of having taken two levels of fighter, since you still get 9th level spells. There was a reason why spells were, and still are prohibited from working in conjunction with Haste. This is a backdoor Haste effect, that never runs out but is only on a timer. Haste is a 4th level spell I think, and this can be done at least 3-4 times per day on average depending on how many times you can rest. Possibly even more. But at least once, for the big battle when you need that combo, it's there.

Imagine to kill the lich you really need to get that crucial spell off. Well, if you cast it and it makes its saving throw, just cast it again with action surge and get another shot at winning the day. It's too powerful a gambit to overlook, as a mage.

 

[Cybit]

Honestly, I'm really looking forward to 5E, but your cynicism is really harshing the new-release fun. Can't we save the optimizing until after we've opened all of our presents?

I think the best part is that staring at the 7 PCs that I have that are single class, straight 10 levels, none of them being fighter or wizard, 6 of them would wipe the floor with his "optimized" PC mathematically speaking. (We do have one full healbot cleric).

Those attribute requirements to multiclass + standard array put a major damper on powergaming & having characters that scale well and that can make the necessary saves. Also, one does not get everything when multiclassing.

That said, it is known that MC'ing can lead to more powerful characters; that is why it is not standard in the base game, and considered, like feats, a completely optional system.

 

[DDNFan]

Please do not let this devolve further. Stick to the character sheet.

We are.

Talking about something on the character sheet. Action Surge grants an extra action. Therefore it will work, as written in the final rules, with spells as well. This is probably a very broken thing, because spells are already quite powerful, and being able to machine gun them is very appealing.

 

[DDNFan]

I think the best part is that staring at the 7 PCs that I have that are single class, straight 10 levels, none of them being fighter or wizard, 6 of them would wipe the floor with his "optimized" PC mathematically speaking. (We do have one full healbot cleric).

Those attribute requirements to multiclass + standard array put a major damper on powergaming & having characters that scale well and that can make the necessary saves. Also, one does not get everything when multiclassing.

That said, it is known that MC'ing can lead to more powerful characters; that is why it is not standard in the base game, and considered, like feats, a completely optional system.

We'll see what the totality of the final rules are, and what spell combos there are. Giving up one spell level (-2 levels of mage or cleric for a bunch of AC and survivability and the ability to cast two spells in one round, even rarely, is an ace in the hole). I've seen single classed PCs and multiclassed. Cherry picking 2 levels of fighter or barbarian or many other classes risks being way more optimal than sticking single classed. My current ranger, I don't see a reason to stay single classed all the way to level 20 for example.

I predict tons of broken spell combos from this one ability as written. As far as we're aware, it's literally the only way to cast two spells in one round aside from swift spells.