D&D 5E Starting Tyranny at 3rd Level?

[Talmek]

After writing out the first episode's encounters leading up to the keep and adding up XP for the group (using average numbers of monsters no extremes either way) you end up with approximately 1K XP total. That's not per PC but total for the group. To be honest that is a BRUTAL run (9 total encounters if the group takes the hard way/combat every time) and I would have expected far more (level 2 coming into the keep missions) but YMMV.

 

[pukunui]

Does that include bonus XP for rescuing townsfolk and such?

 

[Talmek]

No, but looking at the XP rate per townsfolk rescued - they would need another 30(60?) in order for all party members to break 1K XP?

I apologize - I cannot remember the bonus XP rate listed for townsfolk.

 

[pukunui]

- Rescuing Villagers: 50 XP each per villager.
- Driving off the Dragon: 50 XP each, unless 10+ defenders died, in which case it's only 25 XP each.
- Ambush at the Mill: 50 XP each if they know it's a trap, or 25 XP if they at least spot the ambushers in time to avoid a surprise attack.
- Foray to the Temple: 100 XP each for rescuing the people trapped in the temple, unless 10+ were killed, in which case it's only 50 XP each.
-A PC Fights Cyanwrath: 50 XP each.

 

[Coredump]

On the flip side of that coin the milestone system allows GM's (and published adventures) to determine leveling without necessarily adding in tuns of combat filler 'side-treks' to get through levels.

That only makes sense if there is an external (marketing) requirement for them to level after every episode.
If the story doesn't have enough content to gain a level from Episode 6, then they will be the same level for episode 7. My point is that the "need" to be able to call it a "1-15" adventure is what forces them to artificially accelerate the leveling process. Take the same content, tweak the power level a bit, and call it a "1-10" adventure (or whatever)

It also allows GM's to reward successful adventuring, clue finding, puzzle solving, social maneuvering, etc instead of just combat, helping turn a party away from that 'kill everything for xp!' mentality.

Not at all. You can still give XP for all of those things. And they already do in certain spots. I'm not saying all of the XP has to be from killing things.... just that it should be for *something* and not just a handwave because you don't have anything but you 'really want' a 15 level adventure.

If you allow XP for 'dealing with' monsters, then you don't always have to fight them. You can get passed them, or outwit them, or whatever.

 

[Fion]

I've just never been that big a fan of having experience and thus advancement tied to killing monsters specifically. 4e tried to alleviate that problem by giving xp values to traps and skill challenges (which combines social encounters, chases, puzzles, etc). Almost ironic because it was also the most combat-focused version of D&D in decades.

These days I find most PnP games focus on giving XP or some other advancement mechanic not bit by bit as one slays monsters but for successful adventuring or overcoming a more significant challenge than a single encounter. Games like Savage Worlds who leave advancement entirely in the hands of the GM who decides how much experience they hand out at the end of each play session or World of Darkness (2e) that has a very simple experience system that essentially lets players decide their advancement through the Beats system that rewards good roleplay, completing goals or making gameplay interesting through critical failures and a variety of imparing conditions (that themselves reward if you RP them well).

I get it, it's D&D and it's xp system is too iconic to modernize. But Milestones go a long way in helping a GM make advancement part of gameplay as a whole, not just 'how many monsters I beat up'.

 

[pukunui]

[MENTION=64365]Fion[/MENTION]: As I just pointed out in the post above yours, the Tyranny of Dragons modules do award XP for things other than just killing monsters. You get XP for rescuing townsfolk. You get XP for driving off the dragon. Heck, you get XP just for spotting the ambush at the mill!

 

[vandaexpress]

So my players voted to try Tyranny of Dragons now that we've finally finished the Lost Mine of Phandelver. The thing is, I prefer to start campaigns at 3rd level rather than 1st. How feasible is it to let the PCs start Tyranny of Dragons at 3rd?

And if I were to do that, would it be better to slow down advancement early on so they end up getting back on track level-wise, or would it be OK to run the whole adventure with a party that's two levels above the expected level?

Anyone got any suggestions?

I started my party at 2nd level. They still had a very tough time on episode 1. Level 3 would allow them to tackle the challenges without being on the verge of death, which may or may not be a good thing.

Like Merric says, I think you should be able to award XP as written without running into any issues. Just compare the party's level to where the milestone recommendations put them at the end of each chapter, and if it's off, adjust xp accordingly if you desire. Once they get out of the lower levels, the encounters shouldn't be dramatically harder/easier if they're a level higher or lower than they should be. Especially since the as-written encounter balancing is already a little sketch at times.

If you find things are going too easily for the party, add more monsters to each encounter until you reach the target difficulty.

I used to stress out a lot about xp budgeting for encounters, etc but the more I play, the more I realize that there's quite a bit of wiggle room and the game won't break.

 

[pukunui]

Level 3 would allow them to tackle the challenges without being on the verge of death, which may or may not be a good thing.

I think I'm OK with that.

I used to stress out a lot about xp budgeting for encounters, etc but the more I play, the more I realize that there's quite a bit of wiggle room and the game won't break.

Yeah. I've found that too.

 

[GX.Sigma]

What if I don't want to?...I'm not planning on skipping anything.

For what it's worth, I really do believe the first half of HotDQ is the roughest part of the whole campaign. Given you're starting at higher level anyway, it would be easier to skip it than to polish it.

Chapters 1-5 are (to quote your other thread) "error-ridden railroads" where the players have to do what the DM tells them to, but then the rest of the campaign is well-designed dungeon crawls (if you can grok them despite the layout, which was difficult for me).