Starwars D20 Variations/House Rules?

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Not only that, but the Force Sensitive Feat has the ability to do the same thing in a similar way.

I think that many people's problem with the rules may be not actually knowing them well enough. You CAN do the movies just fine with the books. I've proved that many times in my games. My players in the multiple games I run do tons of things just like in the movies. Its half the fun!

I agree. However....

They did a horrible job in the rule book (IMO). They took a backwards approach -- they started with d20 rules and tried to shoehorn Star Wars into it, instead of starting with Star Wars, using D20 where it worked, and then adding or changing what they needed to.

It should have been painfully obvious to anyone writing a Star Wars RPG that everyone playing it would want to mimic the stunts and action in the movies (and the books and video games and comics, to a lesser extent). It would been a whole lot better if they'd added explicit rules and explanations to address those things that were guaranteed to come up in every game.

 

[Goobermunch]

As you've already mentioned there is humongous jumping ability seen in original series and prequels, but isn't at all clear in the d20 rules that has already been talked about. IIRC there is some optional rule involving Move Object to boost jumps significantly, but I don't know whether it is in the RCR or a Jedi Counselling article on the WotC site.

Actually, it's in the Hero Builder's book. Basically, it lets you add your Move Object skill to your jump skill by spending 4(?) Vp.

The best thing to do, however, is first scrap the d20 Jump rules and go to something like Spycraft. d20's jump rules are excessively complex and try to simulate "realistic" jumping. But Jedi Jumps aren't realistic.

--G

 

[AmorphousBlob]

Yup, I realize that. I just didn't clairfy the idea enough I guess. They're basically the same things... it just doens't make sense that a non-user would tap the force (ie, force point) to do something cool or cinematic. Action points, however, as defined in the majority of D20 products are very usefule for maintaining a cinematic feel (in my experience... especially when you get more than the standard amount).

I've heard of people using Mutants & Masterminds to run SW d20 as well. Supposedly that worked well but I can understand that a lot of people wouldn't like that solution.

In Star Wars, every living thing has a connection to the Force. Force sensitives are only those few who are actually sensitive to it, and can actually manipulate or sense it better than others. The only reason I can see that anyone would want to use the term "action points" (which, by the way, are essentially no different) is if the character in question is a droid.

"Use the Force, M2-PT5!"

 

[Plane Sailing]

Apparently you haven't read through the description of the Sense feat, which all Force classes get for free at some point
.

Apparently you haven't learnt how to avoid being condescending when responding to someone. Bad habit, please get over it.

Which is bad enough but you apparently didn't really read my post. What you suggest has nothing to do with the ability to defend yourself against the drone when blind. "sometimes recieves vague impressions in the force" just doesn't cut it. That is clearly indicating Kenobi feeling the death of Alderaan, or perhaps Luke knowing that Han was in trouble on Bespin when he was on Minbar. Or the few occasions when the dark side of the force was involved. It works fine for those situations but ignores the more common situation which I'm concerned with.

Regards

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Apparently you haven't learnt how to avoid being condescending when responding to someone. Bad habit, please get over it.

Which is bad enough but you apparently didn't really read my post. What you suggest has nothing to do with the ability to defend yourself against the drone when blind. "sometimes recieves vague impressions in the force" just doesn't cut it. That is clearly indicating Kenobi feeling the death of Alderaan, or perhaps Luke knowing that Han was in trouble on Bespin when he was on Minbar. Or the few occasions when the dark side of the force was involved. It works fine for those situations but ignores the more common situation which I'm concerned with.

Regards

Check out the expanded uses of the Sense feat detailed in the Power of the Jedi book. That allows for, quite literally, Force Sight.

 

[AmorphousBlob]

Apparently you haven't learnt how to avoid being condescending when responding to someone. Bad habit, please get over it.

Which is bad enough but you apparently didn't really read my post. What you suggest has nothing to do with the ability to defend yourself against the drone when blind. "sometimes recieves vague impressions in the force" just doesn't cut it. That is clearly indicating Kenobi feeling the death of Alderaan, or perhaps Luke knowing that Han was in trouble on Bespin when he was on Minbar. Or the few occasions when the dark side of the force was involved. It works fine for those situations but ignores the more common situation which I'm concerned with.

Regards

I apologize if my response seemed rude to you. I didn't mean it that way, necessarily. It's just that I'm getting fed up with hearing so many people with a lack of imagination. It doesn't take that much work to come up with ways of using the rules for dramatic effect. If you're a player in a campaign that doesn't allow you to have the action of the movies, then your GM isn't using all they're capable of. If you're a GM in the same sort of campaign, just use your imagination!

First off, just because something isn't explicitly described in an action doesn't mean it happened in the typical manner. I roll a jump check and make a jump across a 2 meter gap. I don't have to describe it that way, though. "I run at the gap, jump, flip, draw my lightsaber and swing it at the battle droid!" Now that's interesting! And it's all stuff you can do in a single round, given that you have the Quick Draw feat. A little preparation negates the nead for that feat at all!

Furthermore, if you need something to simulate something from the movies, make up your own rules. I don't have to get licensing from Lucasfilm to make up my own, unpublished rules.

In conclusion, a lack of creativity on your part does not mean a lack of action on my part.

 

[Ranger REG]

It should have been painfully obvious to anyone writing a Star Wars RPG that everyone playing it would want to mimic the stunts and action in the movies (and the books and video games and comics, to a lesser extent). It would been a whole lot better if they'd added explicit rules and explanations to address those things that were guaranteed to come up in every game.

:\

Okay, I'll bite. What should have been there explicitly?

 

[CrusaderX]

Has anyone here checked out the thread over at the SW WotC boards titled "The Force, Revisited"? Various alternative rules are presented to make Jedi characters more like the Jedi in the films.

For example...

Force Usage Variant: The Three Skill Approach

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This method is similar to but distinct from and derived independently of the “Unlearn what you have learned” method described in Jedi Counseling #65.

This variant revises the "Force Sensitive" Feat and removes the Control, Sense, and Alter Force-Feats and replaces them with three like-named skills that now govern all Force usage. These skills (and the attributes that modify them) are: Control (Con), Sense (Wis), and Alter (Cha).

When a Character gains one of these skills as a class skill (all three skills are Class Skills for all Force-Using Classes), the player picks a number of powers related to that skill equal to the bonus to the controlling ability governing the skill plus one (minimum of one).

A Force-Sensitive character can take ranks in the Force Skills as cross-class skills (for characters with the Force Sensitive feat but no levels in a force-using class), but receives one fewer power per skill (controlling ability bonus only instead of controlling ability bonus +1, minimum of 1). If a Force-Sensitive character later takes a level in a force-using class, he/she does not receive an extra power per skill (unless he/she had no ranks in the skill prior to receiving it as a class skill).

Force Powers are identical in almost every respect to the Force Skills presented in the standard version of Force-Use as presented in the SWRPG RCRB and several of the Force Feats (most notably the "Speed" tree of feats) from that book have been reclassified as powers.

A character in a Force-Using Class may select one new power each time he/she advances a level, additionally, they may select an additional power in place of any Level-Based or Bonus Feat selection.

A character in a Non-Force-Using Class may select one additional power instead of any Level-Based or Bonus Feat selection.

Example 1: Yo Jim-Bo, a farm boy from the outer-rim with no ranks in any Force Skills, is taken under the tutelage of aging Jedi Master Jim Kel-Li who trains him in the ways of the Jedi. Yo Jim-Bo has a Constitution of 14 (+2), a Wisdom of 12 (+1), a and a Charisma of 16 (+3), he begins with 3 “Control” effects, 2 “Sense” Effects, and 4 “Alter” Effects after he takes his first level of a force using class.

Example 2: Ha Tamoto, hard-bitten galactic mercenary, has always had a “knack” for survival and working his will in the galaxy, Tomoto has a Constitution of 16 (+3), a Wisdom of 14 (+2), and a Charisma of 10 (+0), He receives three “Control” Powers, Two “Sense” powers, and zero “Alter” Powers when he purchases his first rank of the requisite skills. He buys ranks in "Control" & "Sense" cross-class. He has no ranks in Alter. Upon reaching his next level, Tomoto catches the eye of Darth Han, evil Sith Lord - who teaches him the ways of the Force and he multi-classes into a Force Using class or PrC, Tamoto gains a single "Alter" power as soon as he puts points into the Alter Skill.

Each of these skills requires as a prerequisite the revised version of the “Force Sensitive” feat (detailed below):

Force Sensitive
You are sensitive to the ebb and flow of The Force. Though not necessarily a member of a Formal Force-Using tradition, you are capable of learning some basic Force Powers.
Benefit: You may learn the three Force Skills (Control, Sense, and Alter) as cross-class skills (or as Class Skills if you possess levels in a Force-Using class). This feat is also a prerequisite for every Force-based power and feat.
You gain one bonus Force Point when this feat is selected. There is no limit to the number of Force Points a character with this feat may possess.
You are more adept at calling upon the Force to use a Force Point (see Chapter Nine: “The Force” of the Revised Core Rulebook).
A Force-sensitive character (one who possesses this feat) can make a Wisdom check (DC 20) to avoid being surprised; a successful check allows the character to act during the surprise round, even if he or she would ordinarily be surprised.
Normal: Without this feat, a character may not take ranks in any of the 3 Force Skills, select Force feats, or learn any Force Powers. Additionally, a non-Force-sensitive character is limited to a maximum of five Force Points (any points gained beyond this are wasted).

Force Powers:
Each Force Skill encompasses a number of powers, individual effects/abilities that the skill can be used to achieve.

The Powers associated with each Skill are as follows:

Control Powers:
Battlemind
Force Defense
Force Leap (New, See below)
Force Speed (Formerly the Burst of Speed/Knight Speed/Master Speed Feats, See below)
Force Stealth
Force Trance
Heal Self
Improve Ability
Sense Powers:
Affect Mind
Beast Language
Dominate Mind (D)
Drain Knowledge (D)
Empathy
Enhance Senses
Farseeing
Fear (D)
See Force
Telepathy
Alter Powers:
Affect Mind
Drain Energy (D)
Force Grip (D)
Force Light (L)
Force Lightning (D)
Force Strike
Friendship
Heal Another (L?)
Illusion
Move Object

Multi-Skill Powers
Some Force Powers require more than one skill to use, others require a specific Feat. When an effect is governed by more than one skill the player may choose which skill to use (if the effect is of the same alignment as the character – that is Light Side For Light Side Characters, Dark Side of DS Characters); use the lowest applicable skill (if the effect is of an opposing alignment – DS for LS Characters and vice versa), or use the average of the appropriate skill totals (in the case of non-aligned effects).


Sith Alchemy (D) – Alter Requires Sith Sorcery Feat
Battle Influence (L) - Alter, Requires the Battle Meditation Power(*2)
Battle Meditation (L) - Alter, Requires Wis 13+ fewer then 2 Dark Side Points(*1)
Control Mind (D) – Alter Requires Force Mind Feat & the Affect Mind Power.
Cure Disease (L) - Alter, Requires ranks in the Control skill and 1 or fewer Dark Side points.
Cure Poison (L) - Alter, Requires ranks in the Control skill and 1 or fewer Dark Side points.
Inspire (L) - Alter, Requires the Battle Meditation Power(*2)
Malacia (L) – Alter, Sense, Requires the Force Mind Feat
Plant Surge (L) – Alter, Control
Sever Force (L) – Alter, Requires the Battle Meditation power
Transfer Essence (D) – Alter, Requires the Sith Sorcery Feat

(L) = Light Side skill
(D) = Dark Side skill

Force Leap
Prerequisite: Requires the "Force Sensitive feat and at least one rank in the "Control" Skill
You can call upon your mastery of The Force to leap superhuman distances
Benefit: When using this power, the character pays 4 Vitality Points and may, for the duration of a single Jump Check, add his "Control" skill ranks to his Jump Skill with no limit on maximum jumping distance.

Force Speed (Formerly the Burst of Speed, Knight Speed, & Master Speed Feats)
Prerequisites: Requires the "Force Sensitive" feat and at least seven ranks in the "Control" Skill.
You can call on your mastery of the Force to move at blindingly fast speeds for breif periods of time.
Benefit: Your base speed increases for a single round by a factor based upon your ranks in the "Control" Skill, the cost to use this power depends upon the speed at which you wish to move:
x10 Base Move requires 7 ranks in Control and costs 5VP
x20 Base Move requires 10 ranks in Control and costs 8VP
x30 Base Move requires 14 ranks in Control and costs 12VP
You may move at a slower rate if you wish to.

*1: Some GMs may wish to ignore this restriction (and the Light-Side Bias) as there are EU instances of it's use by Dark Siders.
*2: Some GMs may wish to ignore the Light-Side Bias of this power as there are EU instances of it's use by Dark Siders.

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I don't know how well these alternate rules will work in play, but that thread is full of interesting ideas.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Check out the expanded uses of the Sense feat detailed in the Power of the Jedi book. That allows for, quite literally, Force Sight.

I had heard that Power of the Jedi attempted to address that issue - sadly it doesn't seem to be available in my neck of the woods now (doesn't it also have something on force spirits?)

I have also found an interesting item by JDWiker on this own messageboards here http://p066.ezboard.com/fjdwikersboardsfrm2.showMessageRange?topicID=156.topic&start=1&stop=20 where he has been thinking through this issue further.

Cheers

 

[DnDChick]

After seeing Yoda and the Emperor's Move Object duel during which they threw senatorial podiums at each other, I altered the Move Object table to be based on size categories rather than just weight, and removed the restriction that using hurled objects as an attack was limited to Small and Medium-size objects.

Tiny or smaller: DC 5, Vitality 1; Damage 1
Small: DC 10; Vitality 1; Damage 1d3
Medium-size: DC 15; Vitallity: 2; Damage: 1d6
Large: DC 20; Vitality: 4; Damage: 2d6
Huge: DC 25; Vitality: 8; Damage: 4d6
Gargantuan: DC 30; Vitality: 16; Damage: 8d6
Colossal: DC 35; Vitality: 32; Damage: 16d6


As for the Force Jump ... I ignore the rule in the Hero's Guide. Since Move Object is just a move action, I ruled that you can just use it on yourself to "jump" great distances. I set the distance at 1 meter per point by which you exceed the DC, with a DC and Vitality cost set by your size category. Travel must be in a straight line. If you fail to travel the needed distance, you are allowed a DC 20 Reflex save to catch hold of any available projections to keep from falling (GM's call as to whether or not such projections are available).

Since its a move action, you can use it to jump up to a higher catwalk, or out of a carbonite freezing pit to safety, and still have an attack action or another move action left.

Note that my rule regarding Force Jumping negates the need for the Force Flight feat, but it is a quick and easy fix for replicating all the Jedi jumping and acrobatics we see even the "weakest" Jedi performing in the books and movies.