D&D 5E Stat block for a CR3 villain sorcerer

[Tobold]

While I have been playing and DMing Dungeons & Dragons for 35 years, I am relatively new to 5th edition and haven't run any adventure yet as DM. Now I am planning to do so for the first time, and I am having trouble with balancing my end boss villain, an evil sorcerer. By that point the players should be level 3, so a challenging combat encounter using the sorcerer and a few minions to protect him should mean that the sorcerer should have a challenge rating of CR3. How do I get from that information to a stat block?

Looking at the caster NPCs at the end of the Monster Manual, it appears that caster level should be around 1.5x to 2x the CR, which would give me a level 5 or 6 sorcerer. The "Monster Statistics by Challenge Rating" suggest that CR3 monster should have 101-115 hit points and deal 21-26 points of damage per turn with an attack bonus of +4. But most monsters in the Monster Manual, compared to table, use a lower defensive CR and a higher offensive CR. And calculating the offensive CR of a spellcaster is really tricky, because it is hard to predict how many people will be caught in his spells. A sorcerer of that level could have a fireball spell, and a group of level 3 heroes hit by an 8d6 fireball might be a round 1 total party kill. Spells deal a lot of damage in 5E, compared to weapons. What caster level would you suggest for CR3? I tried to Google "5E NPC generator", but that doesn't give you stat blocks, because NPCs that fight are considered as monsters. And "monster generators" appear to work better for real monsters than for NPCs, especially spellcasters.

So how do I create a spellcaster villain that gives the player a good fight?

 

[Ketser]

I think a spellcaster with access to 3rd level spells can work well, you just have to start thinking what spells that sorcerer NPC uses. Fireball is one of the best picks for a sorcerer PC, but probably not for this encounter.

One possibility is to keep his third level spell(s) choice purely utility or defensive, and keep the offensive options on the 1st and 2nd.

Second have his 3rd level spells be more battlefield control oriented and use them together with monsters that work well with those options. Of course some thought must be put into this option, to keep it interesting, instead being maybe more frustrating.

Thjrid have him be a full fireballs and stuff combat sorcerer, but allow your players have that information for them to try to find ways for the sorcerer to spend some of his spells on something else or risk a possible fiery TPK.

 

[Quickleaf]

Once you've DMed 5e a bit for your group you'll get a much better feel for what constitutes a "good fight." The guidelines in the DMG will only take you so far, maybe get you in the general ballpark, or maybe be useless. Don't get too hung up on the CR.

That said, when setting a CR for spellcasters I often will create an imaginary 3 rounds worth of that caster's actions. This is described in the DMG p.278 under "Overall Damage Output." Generally, I assume a bare minimum of defensive spells cast in advance (esp. mage armor), so those do not require actions in my imaginary 3 rounds. Then I follow the guidelines below for adjudicating targets caught in areas of effect, figure out the total damage each round, then arrive at my average for the DPR.

When calculating damage-per-round (particularly of spells), I reference DMG p.249 "Adjudicating Areas of Effect" which gives estimates on how many targets are caught in an area effect spell for theater of the mind (i.e. no map/minis) play. With this chart, I consider maximum party size to be 4 PCs, which is the default in the rules...so if you have a 90 foot cone, it's only going to count against 4 targets (not 9) for damage-per-round calculation purposes.

TARGETS IN AREAS OF EFFECT (round up)
Cone = size/10
Cube or square = size/5
Cylinder = radius/5
Line = length/30
Sphere or circle = radius/5

This is not the "iron word", but it's a good starting point. I apply a hearty degree of interpolation, however, in imagining how the monster would look in play and how PCs usually react. For example, few players are going to let themselves all get caught in an area of effect, especially not twice in a row once they're aware a monster possesses fireball capability (just an example).

This may seem imprecise. And, well, yep it is. The whole CR system is like licking your thumb, holding it into the wind and trying to calculate exact wind speed down to a decimal place from that. Sure, you'll be able to differentiate a breeze, from a blustery kite-flying day, from strong winds before a storm, but it takes experience to differentiate it much more precisely than that.

EDIT: I will add that giving a caster the fireball spell in particular will drastically increase their DPR and thus their CR. The designers acknowledged that certain spells are just better for their level, by design. If you gave your sorcerer fireball, I'd be surprised if you didn't end up with a CR of 4, 5 or 6.

EDIT EDIT: When I began playing 5e I got hung up on the CR because I was noticing my group of experienced player ploughing through encounters that were, according to the DMG maths, "hard" or "deadly." I think there's general consensus that a fresh, prepared party with feats and multiclassing and magic items played by experienced players are going to be hitting above their weight (as estimated by the DMG maths). Likewise, large parties (6+) seem to be notorious for hitting above their weight (even after factoring in their numbers using DMG maths). Also, myself and other "old hands" at D&D have reported that the DMG "hard" and "deadly" encounter guidelines feel anemic compared to what we were used to in AD&D where things were really deadly. Like everything with D&D, adapt and spice as desired.

EDIT EDIT EDIT: Last edit! I've found that the "Adventuring Day XP" guidelines on DMG p.84 are a better guidelines for how much to throw at the PCs. This will give you much harder challenges, and allow you get by with fewer encounters (which may suit your narrative style), but it will dramatically inflate the XP the party gets...so you may want to switch to milestone leveling if that pace feels too fast. And generally, I don't throw ALL of a day's XP worth of monsters at the PCs in one go...unless the situation is really dire, they've made a huge mistake, they've gone looking for trouble, or I've broken into waves (because numbers are a huge force multiplier in 5e).

For example, take a group of five 3rd-level PCs. A "deadly" encounter for them would be 2,000+ XP. However, suitable adventuring day XP for them would be 6,000 XP. So that's the range I play with, given that I run for experienced players with feats, multi-classing, magic items, and fewer encounters than default D&D.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Aim for 2 short rests... meaning stringing 3 encounters together with no chance to rest will yield good results.

 

[mflayermonk]

Aim for 2 short rests... meaning stringing 3 encounters together with no chance to rest will yield good results.

This is what I do as well-build encounters in 3 or 4 part running encounters.


As for the OP, your sorcerer could use Shatter instead of Fireball if you are looking to tone down the damage.

 

[Caliburn101]

Don't look to tone down anything - run the sorcerer with their full abilities and hit the party hard.

The sorcerer is an NPC interested in continued existence and the continuance of their plans - play the sorcerer like that!

If the party take a pasting, give them a way to retreat and lick their wounds. They will take enemies more seriously in the future and your game will improve as a result.

On the flipside, if they plan well and say take the sorcerer down when asleep or the guard minions are distracted so they are out of the fight long enough to win it, then kudos to your players for good planning.

A 5-6th sorcerer with a handful of CR 1/2 or CR 1 minions sounds fine for a scenario where the party might be able to plan well or create an edge in advance of the fight. If the sorcerer has an edge (defensible location, foreknowledge of the assault etc.) then tone down the minions perhaps.

Either way you're in the right ball park and shouldn't worry about fine tuning for ultra-fairness. Sometimes the adventurers should have a massively uphill battle to win something, and occasionally they should have to retreat. The CR rules can make it seem like each day in the campaign should run like a clockwork mechanism on rails.... don't do it like that that - use them as guidance, not ironclad rules of engagement.

Have fun with the encounter!

... plus... you have an evil sorcerer... so there MUST be a speech on the inevitability of the party's demise. Sorcerers have high CHA and like to show off...

 

[Kabouter Games]

Don't look to tone down anything - run the sorcerer with their full abilities and hit the party hard.

The sorcerer is an NPC interested in continued existence and the continuance of their plans - play the sorcerer like that!

If the party take a pasting, give them a way to retreat and lick their wounds. They will take enemies more seriously in the future and your game will improve as a result.

I don't even do that. If they don't have the sense to run away, it's not my problem.

A 5-6th sorcerer with a handful of CR 1/2 or CR 1 minions sounds fine for a scenario where the party might be able to plan well or create an edge in advance of the fight. If the sorcerer has an edge (defensible location, foreknowledge of the assault etc.) then tone down the minions perhaps.

My table of 4 2nd-level characters just last night took down a CR6 Mage supported by 8 Zombies. Creative play and great die-roll results for them did the job. The BBEG was supposed to disappear in a puff of smoke while the mooks ran interference. Instead, I have to create a new BBEG.

I figure if the encounter math shows just the other side of Deadly, I'm making things interesting. By the same token, if the players have bad luck with the dice, I have to be ready to fudge on the other side, too. My players wouldn't mind getting fried by a powerful mage, but laid low by a goblin? That'd suck. So knowing your table and players is a large part of it, too.

Cheers,

Bob

www.r-p-davis.com

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This is what I do as well-build encounters in 3 or 4 part running encounters.


As for the OP, your sorcerer could use Shatter instead of Fireball if you are looking to tone down the damage.

And make him a storm sorcerer so it makes sense rp wise.

 

[Imaculata]

CR only tells you what a fair fight is, but it won't tell you if its a challenging fight. If your players are level 3, I would probably consider making the boss CR4, with a few level 1 minions, to increase the difficulty a bit. Because a spellcaster that is focused by a whole party can go down fast.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

CR only tells you what a fair fight is, but it won't tell you if its a challenging fight. If your players are level 3, I would probably consider making the boss CR4, with a few level 1 minions, to increase the difficulty a bit. Because a spellcaster that is focused by a whole party can go down fast.

This. If anything, I'd consider running a 4th-level caster with 8 or 9 HD. That both avoids the fireball problem and gives them more staying power to do interesting things. Look at how many NPCs in the Monster Manual have inflated HD like this. I justify the offensive/defensive discrepancy compared to PC characters by saying that NPCs generally have more experience but of a less intensive quality than PCs, so they acquire the basic self-preservation ability but learn fewer nasty tricks. NPCs built on the same scale as PCs represent people who lead the same sort of hardcore adventuring lifestyle and have to wring everything they can out of their experience.