Stat Penalties/Damage?

kmdietri · Apr 14, 2008

Are stat penalties/damage gone in 4th ed? Maybe I missed this but I noticed (after reading the excerpt today) that they don't indicate what stat a monster's attack is based on. Which could be annoying if you can infact cause Stat damage or penalties.

frankthedm · Apr 14, 2008

Gone! You will see penalties inflicted to Attacks and Defenses, but statistics won't be a target anymore.

No more munchkins putting targets onto Int and Dex for big dumb monsters.

Mouseferatu · Apr 14, 2008

Stat penalties were (IMO, of course) one of those 3e-isms that looked good on paper but ground the game to a screeching halt. I can't tell you how many times combat was held up as a player or the DM has to recalculate half a dozen numbers--attack rolls, damage rolls, skills, saves, whatever--because someone dealt Strength or Con damage.

My hope is that 4E--not just the core rules, but for the life of the edition--does away with such things utterly, and conveys similar weakening effects through static penalties (i.e. -2 to all attacks, or half damage on all attacks) without worrying about specific ability modifiers.

Revinor · Apr 14, 2008

kmdietri said:
Are stat penalties/damage gone in 4th ed?

It seems that stat damage is gone. We have seen defense damage at this point (Fortitude from energy drains) and healing surge damage. Stat damage went way of dodo most probably because of the exact reasons you mentioned - too much hassle to determine the effects.

psionotic · Apr 14, 2008

Mouseferatu said:
Stat penalties were (IMO, of course) one of those 3e-isms that looked good on paper but ground the game to a screeching halt. I can't tell you how many times combat was held up as a player or the DM has to recalculate half a dozen numbers--attack rolls, damage rolls, skills, saves, whatever--because someone dealt Strength or Con damage.

My hope is that 4E--not just the core rules, but for the life of the edition--does away with such things utterly, and conveys similar weakening effects through static penalties (i.e. -2 to all attacks, or half damage on all attacks) without worrying about specific ability modifiers.

Word. Another 3.x noble experiment that we are the better for its attempt, but that I am happy to see go away (ideally far, far away).

frankthedm · Apr 14, 2008

Strenght damage messed up math badly and Con Damage punished you for being higher level. Four points of Con damage cost you 2 HP at first level, but 20HP at 10th level.

Fighting monsters that do stat damage was like fighting with hit points that almost never went up.

WyzardWhately · Apr 15, 2008

Well, I suppose I'll miss using the occasional maximized Ray of Enfeeblement to put the kibosh on something...but it'll be good for my GM's blood pressure overall. Also, I won't miss having a pack of wraiths come out of the wall and dog-pile con damage on some poor sap with a crappy touch AC.

frankthedm · Apr 15, 2008

WyzardWhately said:
Well, I suppose I'll miss using the occasional maximized Ray of Enfeeblement to put the kibosh on something...but it'll be good for my GM's blood pressure overall. Also, I won't miss having a pack of wraiths come out of the wall and dog-pile con damage on some poor sap with a crappy touch AC.

AT least the wraith's drain had a save. Shadows dealing 1d6 str damage, no save, was a much faster dog piling.

RoE was one more spell that made the fighter wonder why he bothered to show up.

Mouseferatu · Apr 15, 2008

Most disappointing fight I ever ran in 3.5 was due, in part, to this sort of thing.

It was a great setting--a sprawling, above-ground graveyard, New Orleans-style. Lots of terrain, lots of environmental factors. Pitted the PCs against a bunch of undead--some shadows, some spectres.

Um, oops.

Between the shadows' Strength drain and the spectres' negative levels, the entire thing turned into a long slog through a math quiz. What was set up to be a flavorful and frightening combat turned into such a chore that we hand-waved the last few rounds.