State of the RPG Industry

[Psion]

Was Hogshead flawed, or did the owners just decide they'd had enough and wanted to move on to something else? My impression was that they were profitable enough and didn't have any problems other than burnout.

Public statement and reality often differ...

That said, I don't think I would make the claim that Darwinism really applies in the gaming small press. Even now, it is said that most game designers don't pay the rent with their proceeds from gaming. I don't think it is possible to force a privately owned game company out of business so long as the designers still love what they are doing.

But perhaps their tolerance for flak (and Hogshead earned a lot of it) was lower than the norm and it just wasn't worth it to them anymore.

 

[Mytholder]

I think you're focussing too much on the last few months of Hogshead. Plus, interactions online generally don't have much real impact on sales.

Of course, if you're arguing that James 'made his own bed' by burning himself out arguing with gamers online, he'd possibly agree with you.

 

[Psion]

So never[sic] of you guys feel the market is over saturated right now?

What's "oversaturated"?

Are there more things than I could buy or want to buy? Yes.
Is it very competitive and many publishers are vying for few dollars? Yes.

The main reason I lament the passing of FASA and Hogs Head is the fact they werer producing RPG's that were not D20.

So? Why is that anything special? Lots of publishers are producing RPGs that aren't d20. And (IMO, and possibly as evidenced by the fact that they still exist) they are doing it better. DOJ. White Wolf. DP9. Eden. Decipher. &c.

How does FASA enter into this debate. Hadn't their death knell been sounded before d20?

At any rate, I think this supposition that d20 has damaged the market is a myth. It forced it to be more competitive. I think better non-D&D/d20 games are coming out now than in the 90s, before d20.

It may have damaged the ability of smaller companies to get by with slipshod games, but that is healthy for the market from a consumer standpoint, not "damaging."

 

[Psion]

I think you're focussing too much on the last few months of Hogshead. Plus, interactions online generally don't have much real impact on sales.

I'm not just referring to his online acumen, though that was, indeed, very negative. When I speak of misestimating ones audience, that is very much an important business trait. His online personality is a representation of his beleifs, but I beleive that his beleifs mismatched his audience.

Not that I claim to be a marketing expert or have any compelling theory as to Hogsheads demise; that's just my perception.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I'm surprised that anyone would be taken aback that third party products sell less than 5000 copies. That is the market that the d20 STL and OGL was created to support.

Bingo. Nice catch, Psion.

Wulf

 

[Ashy]

Quote:
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Originally Posted by WizarDru
"the Abe Vigoda of Gaming"? When'd you get that distinction? If it has something to do with how many kids are living in your household, you have my pity.

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Oh god, I should not be legally allowed to deal with kids unless I marry I very responsible woman...

Yea, if it is kids that are in question, I got Mearls beat *hands down*....

(for those that don't know, I've got #5 on the way!)



Anywho, to reign this back in to the topic at hand, I think that there is a LOT of stuff out there to process in terms of product and IMHO the majority of the problem lies in the fact that most gamers are lazy. I mean come on, if those gamers out there that wanted a product went to their FLGS and bothered the owners there, then some of the frontlist-driven problems the industry is facing would diminish....

Also, I think that most gamers probably let the owners of their FLGS get away with a bit too much laziness as well (which oddly, seems to be an odd trend for folks that own FLGSes.....)



No offense meant to anyone out there, of course - just reporting what I see, folks.

 

[Bards R Us]

I'd bet the 90% of all RPG designers have day jobs. And I'd bet that a similar number of RPG designers have always had day jobs. The RPG business is tiny.

Here is a link to the Neverwinter Nights forum http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=281959&forum=77

Even in the entertainment software industry (especially the PC gaming industry), the salaries are not that great as you could make much more money programming software for say, businesses. But then again, I would guess that any industry or business that sells mostly to (finicky) consumers tends to be extremely volatile.

 

[Bards R Us]

It's become an almost completely frontlist-driven industry. I'd hazard to guess that most d20 products from most publishers either just break even or lose money. No one is reliably making a ton of money off of d20 products anymore, and if they tell you otherwise, my first inclination is to assume they're lying.

--Erik Mona

Pretty much any consumer entertainment industy (pc/console games, music, books,etc.) is VERY hit-driven nowadays, where only the elite few "hits" generates a disproportionate number of sales and marketshare.

 

[Mercule]

Also, I think that most gamers probably let the owners of their FLGS get away with a bit too much laziness as well (which oddly, seems to be an odd trend for folks that own FLGSes.....)

I don't think this is anything new. For the last decade or so (meaning, since I started noticing), I've often had more information on some things than the FLGS in the area. And I don't particularly have my ear to the ground -- at least not by EN World standards.

The example that freaked me out most was when I mentioned the $19.95 to $29.95 price hike on the 3E core books to the owner of a FLGS. He said that it wasn't happening, or that he was going to be awefully cross with his vendor if it did happen because they didn't let him know. This was less than a month before the price change took effect.

 

[baseballfury]

To Kevin: I agree that Mongoose has a good business acumen running. The biggest difference between how Mongoose succeeds where TSR failed is in understanding how to use that money to support other projects, not 'prop them up', as TSR did.

The best you can say of game companies is that they appear successful. They are privately owned, so we never see any real data. Sure, Mongoose may appear successful, but so did TSR in the early 90s when they were cranking out 100 titles a year. We now know that "success" was bunk.