State of the RPG Industry

[Scorpio]

Any of you been to a grocery store lately? Like a Super Wal-Mart? Go to any aisle-cookies, chips, frickin' baked beans...there is a glut of EVERYTHING. There are like 15 kinds of Oreos, for God's sake. It's a nightmare, it's confusing, it's ridiculous. But it's what 'normal' is nowadays. And these products are continually being swapped out, and brands and flavors and varieties disappear, and are replaced by new ones.
It's the same here in the RPG industry. You have the 800-lb gorilla and a few big players, a lot of smaller fish, and hundreds of newbies just dying to get on the shelf. And folks notice the shining lights, those products/publishers will rise up, and take the place of, in one way or another, of something 'up' the food chain.

It's normal. It's expected. It's a bastion of capitalism.

 

[Evil Eli]

Any of you been to a grocery store lately? Like a Super Wal-Mart? Go to any aisle-cookies, chips, frickin' baked beans...there is a glut of EVERYTHING. There are like 15 kinds of Oreos, for God's sake. It's a nightmare, it's confusing, it's ridiculous. But it's what 'normal' is nowadays. And these products are continually being swapped out, and brands and flavors and varieties disappear, and are replaced by new ones.
It's the same here in the RPG industry. You have the 800-lb gorilla and a few big players, a lot of smaller fish, and hundreds of newbies just dying to get on the shelf. And folks notice the shining lights, those products/publishers will rise up, and take the place of, in one way or another, of something 'up' the food chain.

It's normal. It's expected. It's a bastion of capitalism.

It's sucking the life out of humanity.

 

[Scorpio]

"It's sucking the life out of humanity..."

Well, I didn't say it was a good thing!

 

[Hunter]

Hello everyone!
Well said on all of the above.
This is a great thread.
One thing I might add about the RPG industry and d20 system in general is how the game is played.
I think with smaller yet successful companies monthly to bi-monthly sales become more important to their longevity.

With an abundance of supplements out their the customer (with limited funds) must make choices based on his/her running game at the time.

Even then he/she may not buy as much because of what is already been published in the past three years.

Many customers may have books they bought but haven't used in their game yet due to the fact their game isn't at that point or the theme of their current game is different at the present time i.e.-(possessing an Outer Planes book but game is still low level and in Orc infested mountains.). Or maybe they purchased a d20 modern game but their friends want to finish the storyline of their Scarred Lands Fantasy game.

Its a difficult problem if your a company living month to month and there is a plethora of products on the market.
Also alot of products go to the DM. Some are DM eyes only.
In a given group of players most everyone will need a players handbook their specialist class book(or whatever specialist spells/skills book) and maybe a monster manual (many DMs forbid this latter during play even though his players may DM him in other games later on).
To add to the problem is time. Time in role playing sessions which could be once a week, or twice a month or whatever.
An especially good supplement could be used over and over again which I think is good but stops the customer from going to the store and buying products on a monthly to bi-monthly basis.
Sure there are multiple supplements that are used in a given game but every game is different and some may not need as much as others.
Add that to the fact that there are tons of products out there plus the fact of a slow economy and competition and you will have some fall out.
I think in the end though as some companies fold, new ones always crop up. Inspiring entreprenuers with their savings and/or investments to publish material. I think its a cycle kind of thing.

Hunter

 

[Olive]

I was upset that Hogshead closed, but only because I like WFRP and I know that GW are never gonna license it out again. And Hogshead's problems stem from their inability to get anything out in under five years, not from d20.

But tell me, why is Pramas so unwilling to give sales figures? What can people do with those what he's so worried about?

 

[jgbrowning]

But tell me, why is Pramas so unwilling to give sales figures? What can people do with those what he's so worried about?

What does he gain by giving such information? If you're doing well you can often come off like a jerk (ie. if the other guys didn't put out crap they'd be doing as well) and if you're not doing so great you can be nailing your own coffin. Besides that, it's really just his private business, both figuratively and literally.

It's the same here in the RPG industry. You have the 800-lb gorilla and a few big players, a lot of smaller fish, and hundreds of newbies just dying to get on the shelf. And folks notice the shining lights, those products/publishers will rise up, and take the place of, in one way or another, of something 'up' the food chain.

You're right, the small guys (like me) are doing our best to just get on the shelf, but we started out in an alternative channel (pdf and selling direct through our website) and got noticed enough to get on FLGS shelves. It wasn't until the ENnies that anyone (except Blackhawk) was convinced that there was a demand for MMS:WE.

For those who don't know, there's a big "difference of opinion" between the two types of gaming stores (brick-and-morter and internet gaming stores). There's also a general dislike of PDF publishing by most game store owners- regardless of type. Personally, i think this "difference of opinion" is occuring because the first beginings of a viable alternate channel are developing. I think that alternate channels will fully develop in ten years or so.

I think the internet is only going to get more and more important. In ten years, who can really predict? :shrug: There's only so much money "in the channel" and everyone involved is going to try and find any way to get more of that money for themselves. One of those methods is by changing the channel itself. I'm just speculating here of course but, i wouldn't be surprised if eventually an internet portal develops that acts as an intermediary between manufacturers and customers: allowing customers to effectively order directly from the manufacturers while only having to go to one place to do so. This intermediary will have no inventory and will provide software to automate the process on the manufacturer's end. The manufacturer will have to deal with shipping/packaging, but that "hassle" results in significantly more money being made per unit even considering shipping/packaging expenses.

I make more money selling a PDF (no printing/shipping costs) through rpgnow.com than I do selling a book through regular distribution channels and when I sell a book directly from my website I make a little over double what I make from the other options. These numbers are leading me to think of "the channel" as a secondary market. Suzi and I joke that we're really just printing our books to help sell our PDFs!

We're an odd one though. Not to be considered "real" publishers, I suppose, but that's our view from where we stand. This of course, doesn't mean anything more than just that.

joe b.

 

[Davelozzi]

I mean come on, if those gamers out there that wanted a product went to their FLGS and bothered the owners there, then some of the frontlist-driven problems the industry is facing would diminish....

I don't think it should be the consumers responsibility to tell the store owners how to run their business. Sure, I've made a few special orders in my day and would do so again if need be, but it's a hassle. Usually there's about a 50% chance that the order comes in and I get notified, otherwise it never shows or I have to keep checking back for it. Now I know that not all areas are as blessed with game store options as Boston is, but for me, if a store doesn't have what I need, I'd rather just check the next one. A store that regularly stocks stuff that I want continues to earn my business, but when I have to start special ordering stuff, I'd rather just take my business down the street.

 

[Olive]

What does he gain by giving such information? If you're doing well you can often come off like a jerk (ie. if the other guys didn't put out crap they'd be doing as well) and if you're not doing so great you can be nailing your own coffin. Besides that, it's really just his private business, both figuratively and literally.

Sure, but that wasn't his argument. He said that there unscrupulous people out there who would use that information. And I'm wondering what they could use it for.

 

[Storminator]

I don't think it should be the consumers responsibility to tell the store owners how to run their business. Sure, I've made a few special orders in my day and would do so again if need be, but it's a hassle. Usually there's about a 50% chance that the order comes in and I get notified, otherwise it never shows or I have to keep checking back for it. Now I know that not all areas are as blessed with game store options as Boston is, but for me, if a store doesn't have what I need, I'd rather just check the next one. A store that regularly stocks stuff that I want continues to earn my business, but when I have to start special ordering stuff, I'd rather just take my business down the street.

That's a little unrealistic. There are a lot of products out there now, and if you want something obscure, you likely will have to order it.

PS

 

[Scorpio]

Joe- you were one of the folks I was thinking of when I said that folks notice a 'shining light'. You produced a quality product. When all is said and done here, those that produce Quality will always sell. It's not a 'glut of products' we're talking about here really, it's a drought of quality products.
A lot of this 'glut' is poor product taking up 'space'.