State of the RPG Industry

[Scorpio]

Joe- you were one of the folks I was thinking of when I said that folks notice a 'shining light'. You produced a quality product. When all is said and done here, those that produce Quality will always sell. It's not a 'glut of products' we're talking about here really, it's a drought of quality products.
A lot of this 'glut' is poor product taking up 'space'.

 

[Davelozzi]

That's a little unrealistic. There are a lot of products out there now, and if you want something obscure, you likely will have to order it.

Right, and as I said above, I've made special orders before and would do so again when necessary. However, around here, that's rarely the case for the stuff that I want. My argument isn't that I should not ever have to special order something, simply that gamers shouldn't be expected to have to tell store owners what to order. Figuring out how to run their business is their job. I will gladly (and often do) give my opinion about what is worthwhile, but when the place down the street already has the item in stock, there's very little incentive for me, as a consumer, to special order an item and that have to wait for it to come in.

P.S., Storm, since you're here in Massachusetts, but probably don't have as many stores around the Dracut area as we do here in Boston, I'm curious - what are the good one(s) in your area?

 

[Xeriar]

The death of FASA and Hoghead Publishing are some lowpoints that come to mind. Another downside is the fact that many companies have dumped there own in-house systems to adapt the D20 system. With such overwhealming amount of D20 material being published I can't help but worry that this is going to hurt the Industry as a whole.

FASA didn't die, they sold their lines to Wizkids (one of whom co-founded FASA) and currently sells Shadowrun and Battletech through FanPro.

Regardless, GURPS, Tri-Stat, HERO, Unisystem, d20, Storyteller and their kin are a good sign, in my opinion. There is a definate plus in having a few, simple (or complex) systems around rather than a mass of poorly-thought out drek.

There have been a few gems, but no doubt they will influence further 'universal' systems.

 

[Nellisir]

I'd bet the 90% of all RPG designers have day jobs. And I'd bet that a similar number of RPG designers have always had day jobs. The RPG business is tiny.

What was it someone (Roger Moore?) said a number of years back? There are more professional astronauts than there are full-time RPG designers.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Sir Whiskers]

These days, money is not nearly the problem that free time is.

Yep, which says to me that one area where companies can improve is in creating products that save time. DireKobold is doing this in part, by producing a product which can be scaled to party level before it's downloaded. Sure, Dungeon magazine provides tips on scaling their adventures, but DK does the work for me. Others are publishing "interactive" srd's, spell lists, etc., which perform much of the grunt work for dm's and players. And one day, we'll actually have the holy grail of character generators...I hope.

Is it just me, or does the hobby seem to have a similar attitude toward technology as typical companies did the 90's? Companies then would bring in pc's, but retain their old processes. They'd build huge databases, then never use them for more than running the occasional report (which printed on reams and reams of greenbar paper, most of which wasn't needed). In short, they bought technology, but never really built their businesses around it.

I can't help seeing a similarity with how many of us game. I refused to convert to 3.5 until I found a character creation program for the revision. I don't have the time to do it all manually. But even now, much - most? - of my prep time as dm is manual. The hobby has added a bit of technology here and there, but the game is designed for pencil and paper, just as it was almost 30(!) years ago.

I know from experience that this turns off potential new players, who have no more time (or patience) than I do. They don't want to have to read a hundred pages to figure out how to create their cool character concept - they want to sit at the computer for 10 minutes and print him/her/it out. They don't want to have to flip through the PH and DMG to find one obscure rule or spell, they want it at their fingertips. And why not? As I've been saying at various companies for years, "There's got to be a better way..."

I may be wrong, but I suspect that the greatest change coming to the hobby in the next few years will be how the industry integrates technology into the game.

 

[Storminator]

Right, and as I said above, I've made special orders before and would do so again when necessary. However, around here, that's rarely the case for the stuff that I want. My argument isn't that I should not ever have to special order something, simply that gamers shouldn't be expected to have to tell store owners what to order. Figuring out how to run their business is their job. I will gladly (and often do) give my opinion about what is worthwhile, but when the place down the street already has the item in stock, there's very little incentive for me, as a consumer, to special order an item and that have to wait for it to come in.

Well in that case, I've over stated my point.

P.S., Storm, since you're here in Massachusetts, but probably don't have as many stores around the Dracut area as we do here in Boston, I'm curious - what are the good one(s) in your area?

I don't know of many stores up here, but the one I use is Wizard's Tower in Nashua. And they rock. They are very savvy about the d20 market (really the only one I care about), and they get most noteworthy products. Both my wife and I also game there once a week, at separate games.

But even then, things go awry. Both of their regular distributors had bogus info on the Artificer's Handbook, and they thought it wasn't available when I tried to order it. I had to talk to MEG Hal and have him straighten everything out. So unless I had made a special order, they never would have known to get the book in. Feeling a bit tangential now ...

PS

 

[Cbas10]

from Psion:

At any rate, I think this supposition that d20 has damaged the market is a myth. It forced it to be more competitive. I think better non-D&D/d20 games are coming out now than in the 90s, before d20.

It may have damaged the ability of smaller companies to get by with slipshod games, but that is healthy for the market from a consumer standpoint, not "damaging."

I would have said something very much like this, but Psion expressed it very well. The large variety of d20/OGL books out there does not bother me. It might create a problem among the segment of the market that buys gaming items on impulse (of which there is a lot of in my area), but for most of the guys I game with, the huge variety barely affects us at all - positively or negatively.

Part of the problem with the massive number of people trying to get published is the fact that the majority of local gaming stores simply cannot have enough of every book available. We COULD, but it would drive most of us to the poor-house before the next Christmas Season. At least 90% of all d20/OGL products that we have gotten in have either (a) been dramatically discounted so taxes do not have to be paid on the inventory (b) continued to sit and collect dust or (c) been given away as promotional material. D&D is not a small-time game around here; it sells well and is the highest seller in the store. Most of the gamers here are either full-time students, professionals, or normal wage-slaves with families like the rest of us. None of us have the time nor inclination to create settings or adapt material to the ones we use. This all leads me to what my gamers - those in my area - want: Quality Story Material.

The biggest strength of the 3.0/3.5 D&D/d20/OGL concept is the fact that we can have a pool of 30+ players in about a dozen games happening throught any given week at the game store. Aside from a few aspects of DM style and a VERY RARE house rule or two, we can all play and relax, knowing we have the rules and books necessary for whatever game we want to run or play in. The rules are all the same; we are not rules-lawyers, but we don't want to take even more time away from our wives and kids by learning ANOTHER system or ANOTHER set of feats or ANOTHER group of classes and prestige classes..etc...etc.....etc. We want story, we want something we can identify with, and we want content that is genuinely interesting to read and "take part in." Any monkey with a finger up his but and some toilet paper to write on can devise new feats, spells, classes, magic items, etc. Who cares? The only way that any company will CONTINUE to sell anything is to have a great story or a great source of inspiration for players that they can absorb and run with.

The most anticipated books this year (aside from Forgotten Realms titles; they don't count, as they have their own build-in fanbase) around here have been the new white-cover Player's Guide Series by Sword and Sorcery. These books came through and fulfilled every expectation; they are easily the best books out there this year. At least a half to two-thirds of each of these books gives the reader the inspiration I was referring to: WHO is your character, WHAT group does he belong to, HOW does that group affect your character, WHERE does your character belong in the world and among his peers, and WHEN does your character make that transition from drawing upon the material's inspiration to contributing to the material's inspiration. Sure, there are a few feats and classes to back up the background and setting, but it is obvious that those rules are pointless and worthless without the setting and story to support it.

All of THIS is what will make or break a d20/OGL publisher. Even WotC will have to follow this rule. Right after releasing Draconomicon and setting the standard of quality even higher than before, they release "Complete Warrior." Only when the next generation of gamers flows in (who do not have access to Sword and Fist and that line) will this book even begin to possibly sell very well. Sure, only 20% of it is actually reprinted material, but I was hard pressed to find ANYTHING that was not something previously done or mentioned in a book or Dragon Magazine and re-hashed for 3.5.

In short (I could have said this long ago to save you readers some time), the successful books will be the ones that keep the ROLE-players in mind, not the number-crunchers. We don't need crazy new concepts and really freakin bizarre game settings to refresh things; we want good ideas to expand upon solid basic concepts.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

originally posted by Cbas10
The successful books will be the ones that keep the ROLE-players in mind, not the number-crunchers. We don't need crazy new concepts and really freakin bizarre game settings to refresh things; we want good ideas to expand upon solid basic concepts.

Actually, won't the really successful books be the ones that appeal to both types of gamers you've identified? It seems to me that you're creating a somewhat artificial and possibly damaging division among gamers. My RL group has both types of folks (as well as folks who land somewhere in the middle); I'd say that the books that we use need to appeal to all of us, not just the people who are more interested in role-playing.

Best,
tKL

 

[Corinthi]

The most anticipated books this year (aside from Forgotten Realms titles; they don't count, as they have their own build-in fanbase) around here have been the new white-cover Player's Guide Series by Sword and Sorcery. These books came through and fulfilled every expectation; they are easily the best books out there this year. At least a half to two-thirds of each of these books gives the reader the inspiration I was referring to: WHO is your character, WHAT group does he belong to, HOW does that group affect your character, WHERE does your character belong in the world and among his peers, and WHEN does your character make that transition from drawing upon the material's inspiration to contributing to the material's inspiration. Sure, there are a few feats and classes to back up the background and setting, but it is obvious that those rules are pointless and worthless without the setting and story to support it.

Really? I'm a little surprised that you're singling out the Player's Guide series as a brilliant example of supplement design. I gave my copies of the fighter and arcane guides away.

Scarred Lands has excellent fluff. I /really/ like the setting and all it's grim and gritty implications. I don't like the fluff, however. Most of thier prestige classes come off as just too overpowered in my eyes. I'm of the philosophy that prestige classes shouldn't trump the core classes and the Player's Guide prestige classes are very obviously more powerful than the core classes.

While I like good fluff and flavor, the mechanics of a supplement are what ultimately sell it too me. I can invent my own flavor and in doing so have vast amounts of inspiration from television, movies, and literature to draw from. What I'm not in the mood to do is invent my own mechanics. Tweak, modify, or alter, sure. Create, no.

I suppose that the Scarred Land prestige classes are just a little too uber for my tastes. I'd prefer supplements that were a little lower powered. A bit grittier to better fit my view of the world and heroes.

 

[Michael Morris]

I have to wonder about that. Have you looked at the current prices of DnD books? take a gander at amazon, the least expensive current book is $29.95 with many in the $35-$40 range. The days of $15-$20 books seem to be over and I know I for one am alot more picky about what I'm willing to pay; and the state of the economy has no influence on that decision. @ $40/book, how long do you think the high-end buyers are going to last?

That's a direct end result of the current glut.

To price a book at $15-$20 you MUST print around 5,000 copies if it is paperback, around 10,000 if it is hardback, or even more for a large hardback. Instead, since sales rarely break the 5000 mark (or so we're told) the large print run to drive down unit cost can't be done.