vic20
Fool
Can anybody provide a page # for this "more than 10 squares" rule?
D&D 4E Stealth and Perception checks in 4e
- Thread starter pwnedd
- Start date
vic20
Fool
Maybe just a house rule that was mistaken for RAW?
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
It is in DMG page 36.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Cool. Thanks for the replies. So it sounds like under normal circumstances neither side is likely to get the jump on the other, unless they are specifically attempting to be stealthy and are moving very slowly. That makes sense
Here is the next scenario I had in mind:
Scenario 2:
The group's rogue quietly moves up ahead and peers into the next room. An enemy is standing there in normal light, but facing away (out of line of sight) and not paying attention to the door. The rogue moves 2 squares in, makes a stealth check, and attempts to move towards the enemy to sneak attack him.
Question:
The PHB states that in order to maintain stealth you must have some degree of cover (low lighting or foliage?). In this case though, supposing that the enemy does not bother to turn around and check his back, could the rogue sneak up on him and make a surprise attack? Would his stealth be automatically maintained without the need for any additional checks, even if he has to cross 10 squares (two at a time) to get to the enemy?
Or is sneaking up behind an enemy much more difficult?
He can begin hiding without any cover or concealment at the DM's discretion. He can then continue hiding with the same discretion.
If he really wants to risk taking 5 rounds to sneak up on the foe, then he gets a surprise round. As a rogue he'll get CA for the surprise round plus CA until his foe acts.
This whole scenario is DMs discretion, so there's no real issue if the DM decides to require the rogue to roll stealth checks for each round (as an example).
mysticknight232
First Post
I'm a n00b DM and will be running a one-shot. I already know that one of the rooms is trapped and the DC to discover the trap is higher than the highest passive perception. Do I need to be a polite DM and ask for a perception check while they're in the room or do I just wait and let them wonder into the trap? Personally, I want to let them wander into the trap, but I don't want to be a dick about it either since this is my first time.
Thanks and happy hunting!
Thanks and happy hunting!
vic20
Fool
Somebody will have to take an explicit (minor action) active Perception check to avoid the trap. If their Passive Perception isn't high enough, they'll walk right into it otherwise....
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
I would go with what vic20 is saying as well. I think that is the way the 4e Perception thing was intended to work.
That being said there are a lot of reasons a trap might appear in an adventure and a lot of different appropriate levels of Perception that might be appropriate depending on why it was placed there. Some types of traps are also just best avoided entirely (or made easy to find and avoid and are there just for show basically).
The first question you want to ask is obviously why does the trap exist? Is it part of a larger encounter? Is it an encounter all of its own that has some meaningful amount of difficulty to overcome? Does it exist for story purposes? Is it in a place that logically someone might likely search?
If you put hard to find traps around randomly the chances are the players will start using active Perception constantly. This can get dull fast. Put them on doors and such so that the players have a good idea of when to spend table time using active checks. More significant traps might well go just about anywhere, but in that case I'd generally allow some hint to be garnered by passive Perception like "You notice that the area in the center of the room seems oddly free of dust" or something.
If a trap is going to be part of an encounter with monsters, then you have more leeway. A simple trap in that case can just be out there waiting to get someone (though that is usually somewhat boring). More interesting alternatives include something that the rogue might burn turns on disarming (in which case probably he should see it passively) or something the PCs can turn against the enemy if they are clever (again probably best easily seen). A simple example is a pit. As a closed and concealed trap it is going to basically just whack someone, which is OK but not super exciting. If instead it is open and in plain sight it becomes terrain to move around or push enemies into (though it is not really a trap at that point either, but that's a whole other discussion...).
That being said there are a lot of reasons a trap might appear in an adventure and a lot of different appropriate levels of Perception that might be appropriate depending on why it was placed there. Some types of traps are also just best avoided entirely (or made easy to find and avoid and are there just for show basically).
The first question you want to ask is obviously why does the trap exist? Is it part of a larger encounter? Is it an encounter all of its own that has some meaningful amount of difficulty to overcome? Does it exist for story purposes? Is it in a place that logically someone might likely search?
If you put hard to find traps around randomly the chances are the players will start using active Perception constantly. This can get dull fast. Put them on doors and such so that the players have a good idea of when to spend table time using active checks. More significant traps might well go just about anywhere, but in that case I'd generally allow some hint to be garnered by passive Perception like "You notice that the area in the center of the room seems oddly free of dust" or something.
If a trap is going to be part of an encounter with monsters, then you have more leeway. A simple trap in that case can just be out there waiting to get someone (though that is usually somewhat boring). More interesting alternatives include something that the rogue might burn turns on disarming (in which case probably he should see it passively) or something the PCs can turn against the enemy if they are clever (again probably best easily seen). A simple example is a pit. As a closed and concealed trap it is going to basically just whack someone, which is OK but not super exciting. If instead it is open and in plain sight it becomes terrain to move around or push enemies into (though it is not really a trap at that point either, but that's a whole other discussion...).
Connorsrpg
Adventurer
Not meaning to hijack - but re the 'orc on the john'> I actually have a chart i roll on to adjust random encounters (and sometimes use with 'set' encounters). It has all sorts of entries like this, b/c I am very visual with encs. I try to get the PCs to really picture what is happening and what is around the stat blcoks charging at them. For humanoids I also try to add to distinctive details too, such as 1 appearance difference or a personality quirk that could come out in battle.
Re Stealth. I always allow PCs combat advantage in situations where an enemy would not expect them. So the sneaking up on guys looking the other way. Win the Stealth check (inc penalties for mvt) vs their 'distracted' passive Perception and you get CA. Often I apply this for teleporting PCs too. Anytime an attack comes from somewhere unepected basically.
Re Stealth. I always allow PCs combat advantage in situations where an enemy would not expect them. So the sneaking up on guys looking the other way. Win the Stealth check (inc penalties for mvt) vs their 'distracted' passive Perception and you get CA. Often I apply this for teleporting PCs too. Anytime an attack comes from somewhere unepected basically.
Similar Threads
D&D (2024)
Creating good stealth rules for 2024 5e
