Stealth, doors, and attacks.

[Kzach]

Sigh.

I said that they would attack every OTHER round. They move behind superior cover and make a stealth check. They are hidden. Next round they minor to open the door, standard to attack from hidden, move to close the door. Next round they move, stealth, hidden. Next round they open, attack, close.

At the point where they open the door using an action to do so and thus losing superior cover, the action ends with them having no cover. So the question that I originally asked in the very first post was: is he still considered hidden for his next action?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

OK, lets assume that this sliding door opens directly into the ally, so basically the door opens and you have a situation where a PC is in each of the squares adjacent to the attacker. The PC closest to the attacker would seem to have a full view of the attack at that point and would see him. The PCs to either side would have their view partly blocked by the wall and the attacker would have at least normal cover against them, so he would still remain hidden from those characters by RAW. PCs further up and down the ally would also not see the attacker and he would have superior cover against at least some of them.

Of course if the square containing the attacker for some reason gives concealment, then he's still hidden from all PCs. So, assuming you want to go with standard mechanics and no special power or something, that would be the way to do it. Maybe the space on the other side of the panel is dimly lit or in darkness. Perhaps the whole ally is dimly lit. Dim lighting will give concealment all around.

 

[Kzach]

Of course if the square containing the attacker for some reason gives concealment, then he's still hidden from all PCs. So, assuming you want to go with standard mechanics and no special power or something, that would be the way to do it. Maybe the space on the other side of the panel is dimly lit or in darkness. Perhaps the whole ally is dimly lit. Dim lighting will give concealment all around.

Ahah! Brilliant! I hadn't considered this. Yes, the area behind the doors is pitch-black with only outside illumination so they would still be partially concealed by the darkness.

Excellent!

 

[sfedi]

First of all, sorry Kzach for not answering well the first time.

As Abdul said, to remain hidden you must have at least cover or concealment.

If the door the attacker opens is slim enough, then this condition (having at least cover or concealment) would be fulfilled (e.g. an arrow slit).

A couple more things:
- if you can, try to tell the intent of the encounter and the design decisions to the DM
- even if the attacker remains hidden, the door opened is still visible. As such, PCs can react upon seeing a door opening by readying actions. Consider that so the encounter isn't a push over just because PCs can ready and completely ruin enemies' tactics.

 

[stonegod]

While concealment in general is useful to maintaining stealth, in the situation where they attack is is moot: Attackers are no longer hidden after they attack, period.

Remaining Hidden: You remain hidden as long as you meet these requirements.
* Keep Out of Sight: If you no longer have any cover or concealment against an enemy, you don’t remain hidden from that enemy. You don’t need superior cover, total concealment, or to stay outside line of sight, but you do need some degree of cover or concealment to remain hidden. You can’t use another creature as cover to remain hidden.
...
* Don’t Attack: If you attack, you don’t remain hidden.

You still retain the hidden state while attacking, but lose it after the attack (which is why you need another move action to hide afterwards).

 

[sfedi]

While concealment in general is useful to maintaining stealth, in the situation where they attack is is moot: Attackers are no longer hidden after they attack, period

While what you are saying is true, note that the OP is more concerned with other scenario:

If the attacker is hidden after he opens the door.

I misread him too

 

[Infiniti2000]

Next round they minor to open the door, standard to attack from hidden, move to close the door.

While this may not be important, you've said this twice and I think the Jester tried to correct it. I don't have the books myself so can't confirm the actual rule. Is closing a door a minor or move action?

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Well, this is for a module I wouldn't mind attempting to one day maybe publish, so it has to be kosher

I'd worry less about being kosher than I would about creating an entertaining encounter. In any case, the foundation of 4e's design is creating exceptions to the rule. I think it's perfectly acceptable for a published adventure to have an specially designed encounter area that plays to the monsters' strengths.

That and I still found the question to be relevant to my regular gaming.

Well, that's different. I'd say in combat that opening the door (which I, too, would consider a minor action) would tip off people that something's afoot. But, if there's complete darkness on the attacker's side of the door, I'd say the attacker is still hidden (the target doesn't know where the attacker will strike from). Actually, there doesn't even need to be *complete* darkness, it just needs to be dimly lit to still provide concealment.

However, if there was lots of light on the attacker's side and the door is fully opened, I'd say the attacker loses hidden.

EDIT - Ugh, AbdulAlhazred beat me to the quick by a large margin

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Open or close a door is a minor action as long as it is not "locked or stuck". So the open, attack, close sequence is perfectly acceptable under RAW. As long as the square grants concealment the attacker is still hidden and will get CA etc during the attack as RAW doesn't say anything about actions like opening doors breaking hidden status. The question of whether or not the attacker could regain hidden status immediately is a bit less clear. Closing a door isn't a move action, but the rules don't really clarify what that means. Is the fact that you're expending a move action to close it enough to give you a stealth check to hide? Certainly once the door is closed the attacker is beyond the LOS of the party, so its at least arguable you can hide again, which would be nice if a PC moves up and opens the door again, seeing as the attacker has no spare actions to use to move away.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

EDIT - Never mind.