Stealth in combat. Evidence and advice.

[Cadfan]

How a person can use a scrap of cover to fool an enemy into thinking he's not actually there is beyond me.

When an enemy hides, you remember the last square you saw him in before he hid. So if a character is repeatedly hiding behind the same barrel, then popping out and shooting a crossbow at you, he might be getting combat advantage, sure. But he's not getting it because you forgot that he was there. He's getting it by popping in and out of cover so quickly that he catches you by surprise. You know he's there, and can walk over and stab him anytime you like.

 

[Surgoshan]

From the opening of the info on Stealth:

Stealth: Part of whatever action you are trying to perform stealthily

1) You have your crossbow drawn, you move into cover (make a stealth check), attack (leaving hiding).

2) You move into cover (making a stealth check), draw your crossbow (making a stealth check), attack (leaving hiding).

3) You draw your crossbow, move into cover (making a stealth check), attack.

Obviously, there are better and worse ways to handle it.

 

[Sanzuo]

I should mention that we had this discussion before.

For what it's worth you can use the above thread to get some of your own ideas about what stealth is and how it should be used.

Basically stealth is unclear as written. So far after our first combat-heavy session of 4e using stealth as presented in the rules seemed to work out okay.

Edit: Actually, that's not true. As a DM, I ruled that if you wanted an enemy to lose sight of you in combat you basically couldn't remain in your current square. So whatever action you attempt stealthily, by the time you make your stealth roll you had better be in cover/concealment and in a different square you started in. Seemed to make a lot more sense to me and it gives the rogue a reason to move around a bit more.

 

[Simplicity]

From the opening of the info on Stealth:



1) You have your crossbow drawn, you move into cover (make a stealth check), attack (leaving hiding).

2) You move into cover (making a stealth check), draw your crossbow (making a stealth check), attack (leaving hiding).

3) You draw your crossbow, move into cover (making a stealth check), attack.

Obviously, there are better and worse ways to handle it.

I'm fairly certain that you need to be in cover/concealment at the START of your action in order to make a Stealth check. There was a CSR response on that one (whether it's accurate is anyone's guess).

 

[Simplicity]

I should mention that we had this discussion before.

For what it's worth you can use the above thread to get some of your own ideas about what stealth is and how it should be used.

Basically stealth is unclear as written. So far after our first combat-heavy session of 4e using stealth as presented in the rules seemed to work out okay.

The thread was unfortunately inconclusive. The original post provides a conclusion to some of that discussion. Specifically, whether or not combat advantage is received for hiding.

 

[Surgoshan]

There's a thread with answers from WotC's support that say that when you gain concealment from the Warlock's shadow walk, that you can stealth immediately as part of that. You can stealth as part of any action, so long as you end with cover/concealment.

Remember, that if you succeed in your stealth check, that just because they don't know where you are it doesn't mean they don't know where you are.

If you're hidden in the only square in the room that provides cover/concealment, then they can still attack you with a -5 to attack. It's a 5x5 square with stuff in it, and they don't know exactly where within it you are. If you succeed well enough on a stealth check in a room with lots of places of cover, then they have to guess which square you might be in. It balances pretty well.

 

[Simplicity]

There's a thread with answers from WotC's support that say that when you gain concealment from the Warlock's shadow walk, that you can stealth immediately as part of that. You can stealth as part of any action, so long as you end with cover/concealment.

Remember, that if you succeed in your stealth check, that just because they don't know where you are it doesn't mean they don't know where you are.

If you're hidden in the only square in the room that provides cover/concealment, then they can still attack you with a -5 to attack. It's a 5x5 square with stuff in it, and they don't know exactly where within it you are. If you succeed well enough on a stealth check in a room with lots of places of cover, then they have to guess which square you might be in. It balances pretty well.

I looked around... Are you talking about this CSR?

Customer (WOLead ****) 06/13/2008 07:45 AM
1)Does Shadow Walk's Concealment allow you to make a Stealth Check?

2)If 1) is true, then if a Warlock has successfully hidden himself in his concealment, can he attack then move 6 to reroll the Stealth check to hide again? Its assumed he would take the -5 penalty for moving more then 2 squares without the Secret Stride feat.

Quote:
Response (Support Agent) 06/13/2008 03:35 PM
Greetings,

1. Yes, you can make a stealth check after using Shadow Walk.

2. Yes, he can attack and then move, making another stealth check in the process.

That does seem to indicate that you can stealth INTO concealment.
Wow that is going to happen alot. Warlocks are pretty nasty then. 1 + 2 implies that warlocks should pretty much always be hidden. I'm assuming that after the 3 movement, the warlock disappears and they get 3 more hidden movement in this case.

 

[Surgoshan]

Remember that, having moved three squares, the warlock is going to get a -5 to his stealth roll.

 

[Ravingdork]

Remember that, having moved three squares, the warlock is going to get a -5 to his stealth roll.

They also don't have Stealth as a trained skill. You would have to spend a feat to get particularly good at it.

 

[Surgoshan]

A warlock multiclassing to ranger could train stealth... and get to add hunter's quarry once per turn. Mean!