Sticky Fighter question

[haran.banjo]

Hello everyone,
I have another issue that came up a couple of sessions ago, and wasn't able to find a suitable answer or an house rule on the matter.

I need a graphical example for this one.

Let's assume that the party is in one room with a single access door.
The Fighter is waiting just behind the door for any monster entering the room.
A "train" of monster is ready to swarm in the room.

The example is unrealistic, but shows my issue.

.XXXXXXXXX.................
.X.......X.................
.X......FXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.X.....abc...mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
.X.......XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.X.......X.................
.XXXXXXXXX.................

X = wall
F = the fighter
a,b,c = three squares
m = monster

When a monster "m" moves from c to b generates an Opportunity Attack from the Fighter. Let's assume that the Fighter is lucky enough to ALWAYS hit. So the monster stops in square c.
What happens when EVERY monster tries to enter the room? Do they all stop when moving from square c to b, but since c is already occupied they trackback to the previous square?
In this way, a single Fighter can stop a (literaly) train of monster... alone...

Scary...
I am reading some rule wrong?

 

[Bigwilly]

You do realise that the fighter could just stand in the doorway and none of the monsters would be able to get past him either. This has long been a standard adventurer's technique in D&D (and other games).

Best solution is for more monsters to come in through the secret door in the west wall while the party is focusing on the minions in the hallway.

 

[Fede]

You are reading the rule right, however i don't see why you think it's scary. It's the fighter's job to be "sticky" and deny freedom of movement to monsters, and in you example this is possible only because of the peculiar conformation of the map (and also, because you are considering a 100% hit rate). With a corridor one square wide, every character could stop the train simply standing on the door square, as Bigwilly pointed out (and they don't even need to hit with the OA!).

 

[luide]

Yes and no.

First, the fighter can stop the monster "train" if he hits every time and the monsters are stupid. They have multiple options to evade the Combat Superiority

1) Just use 2 move actions. Move from square c to square b, get hit by OA, stop at square c. Use next move action to run around the fighter. This works because you only get one OA per enemys turn.

2) Clever use of triggering actions. For example trigger monsters to move if either first monster is hit or if fighter does something on his turn. In first case, fighter has already had his OA for that specific monsters turn and can't get any more. In second case, fighter cannot make OA's (nor immediate actions) on his turn.

But if the fighter wanted to stop the whole monster train, he could just stand in square c and nothing could go past him (unless the monsters had special powers)

 

[haran.banjo]

You do realise that the fighter could just stand in the doorway and none of the monsters would be able to get past him either. This has long been a standard adventurer's technique in D&D (and other games).

Best solution is for more monsters to come in through the secret door in the west wall while the party is focusing on the minions in the hallway.

Thanks Bigwilly.
Yeah, I do realize that. But, that's not the point.
Monsters can always try to push the warrior or something like that. They can use other ways around, or wait their opponents in another room to ambush them and so on.

My question was however focusing on the specific problem, not on the options to circumvent it. How would you deal with the ruling in this case?

 

[haran.banjo]

Well, Fede and luide answered so fast...

Thank you.
That pretty much cleared my doubts.

 

[Belares]

Yes and no.

First, the fighter can stop the monster "train" if he hits every time and the monsters are stupid. They have multiple options to evade the Combat Superiority

1) Just use 2 move actions. Move from square c to square b, get hit by OA, stop at square c. Use next move action to run around the fighter. This works because you only get one OA per enemys turn.

2) Clever use of triggering actions. For example trigger monsters to move if either first monster is hit or if fighter does something on his turn. In first case, fighter has already had his OA for that specific monsters turn and can't get any more. In second case, fighter cannot make OA's (nor immediate actions) on his turn.

But if the fighter wanted to stop the whole monster train, he could just stand in square c and nothing could go past him (unless the monsters had special powers)

Is it my understanding that every "m" that goes by fighter gets an OA (basic attack) against it(and since he has combat superiority can make each one stop its movement, mind you still having a move action can still move though). Only once per combantant's turn for an OA though...right?

 

[Kordeth]

Is it my understanding that every "m" that goes by fighter gets an OA (basic attack) against it(and since he has combat superiority can make each one stop its movement, mind you still having a move action can still move though). Only once per combantant's turn for an OA though...right?

Yes. You get one opportunity action per opponent's turn. However, you cannot take opportunity actions on your own turn, so technically speaking all the monsters could ready an action to move in response to something the fighter will probably do on his turn (e.g. attack). Since the readied actions occur during the fighter's turn, he wouldn't get OAs. That's a pretty cheesy trick, though.

 

[BobTheNob]

This is also a quirkiness of turn based mechanics. Yes, it would play out this way...but then again

* Look at the room, its the ultimate defensive position. Congrats to the party for being in such a position when the horde arrived
* I always design my corridors 2 squares wide. 1 square (to me) is crawl space
* Creature stupidity is a factor here. Anything with at least insect or greater intelligence isnt just going to line up to be slaughtered. Try arming some with flaming oil or improvised poison gas bombs or some such to encourage the party to come out and fight them on terms less favorable

In a nutshell, the rules scenario you have depicted is true and that fighter can hold the corridor as long as he has HP, but then again, thats his job. This entire scenario being "a problem" is a side effect of the map/situation/encounter design, not the rules

 

[haran.banjo]

This is also a quirkiness of turn based mechanics. Yes, it would play out this way...but then again

* Look at the room, its the ultimate defensive position. Congrats to the party for being in such a position when the horde arrived
* I always design my corridors 2 squares wide. 1 square (to me) is crawl space
* Creature stupidity is a factor here. Anything with at least insect or greater intelligence isnt just going to line up to be slaughtered. Try arming some with flaming oil or improvised poison gas bombs or some such to encourage the party to come out and fight them on terms less favorable

In a nutshell, the rules scenario you have depicted is true and that fighter can hold the corridor as long as he has HP, but then again, thats his job. This entire scenario being "a problem" is a side effect of the map/situation/encounter design, not the rules

Yep, that's a completely unrealistical situation. And yes, I agree with all your points

It just served as a "test board" sample to clarify a doubt I had - about Attack of Opportunity and Combat Superiority, and as a bonus I also learned how to "challenge" a player with such features.

So, thanks anyone