Stirges.. Most broken monster ever.

[Jhulae]

Okay. They're low CR.. They have 5 HP (on average).

But, a flight of stirges (lets say 10-11) can theoretically take down a Great Wyrm Red Dragon in *one round* if they get the drop on it.

They need to only make a touch attack to be able to do 1d4 con damage. They have an obscene hide check (+14). And, they always travel in groups big enough to take down any one creature (except, maybe, for the smallest group.. but even 4 can drain 16 con, enough to kill most PCs).

Two sessions ago, my PC was attacked by 6 in a surprise round, and they had higher initative as well. Needless to say, dead PC.

All this from a CR1/2 creature.

Broken.

 

[Krelios]

Yep.

 

[Piratecat]

Nope, your DM misread the monster. They don't drain con in the same round that they attach. They attach in one round, then drain con the next round, thus giving you one round to get them off (or to stand in your buddy's area attack spell.)

It's a common mistake.

A stirge attacks by landing on a victim, finding a vulnerable spot, and plunging its proboscis into the flesh. This is a touch attack and can target only Small or larger creatures.
Attach (Ex)

If a stirge hits with a touch attack, it uses its eight pincers to latch onto the opponent’s body. An attached stirge is effectively grappling its prey. The stirge loses its Dexterity bonus to AC and has an AC of 12, but holds on with great tenacity. Stirges have a +12 racial bonus on grapple checks (already figured into the Base Attack/Grapple entry above).

An attached stirge can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself. To remove an attached stirge through grappling, the opponent must achieve a pin against the stirge.
Blood Drain (Ex)

A stirge drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage in any round when it begins its turn attached to a victim. Once it has dealt 4 points of Constitution damage, it detaches and flies off to digest the meal. If its victim dies before the stirge’s appetite has been sated, the stirge detaches and seeks a new target.

 

[Legildur]

Gee, suddenly the simple old core Combat Reflexes feat starts to look attractive....... gain AOOs up to 1 plus Dex modifier and allowed to make AOOs when flat footed.....

And just another reason why I typically favour lightly armored and high touch AC characters - it isn't just the incorporeal undead touch attacks that you have to worry about.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Okay. They're low CR.. They have 5 HP (on average).

But, a flight of stirges (lets say 10-11) can theoretically take down a Great Wyrm Red Dragon in *one round* if they get the drop on it.

They need to only make a touch attack to be able to do 1d4 con damage. They have an obscene hide check (+14). And, they always travel in groups big enough to take down any one creature (except, maybe, for the smallest group.. but even 4 can drain 16 con, enough to kill most PCs).

Two sessions ago, my PC was attacked by 6 in a surprise round, and they had higher initative as well. Needless to say, dead PC.

All this from a CR1/2 creature.

Broken.

The hide check isn't really obscene. Your Dragon example wouldn't work with a surprise, as the Dragon has a lot more HD and Spot as a class skill. A single use of his breath weapon will destroy all stirges.
Even if they attach to the Dragon, he will easily beat their grapple checks.

Most of that remains true for PCs, too. Even 1st level heroes have a good chance to succeed the grapple check to remove the Stirge.

On top of that, Stirges leave after they have dealt 4 points of constitution damage. They probably will not attack all the same target (that would be counter-intuitive - they risk not getting enough blood of their victim if they have to share), unless there aren't enough.

 

[Jhulae]

Nope, your DM misread the monster. They don't drain con in the same round that they attach. They attach in one round, then drain con the next round, thus giving you one round to get them off (or to stand in your buddy's area attack spell.)

It's a common mistake.

If they surprise you, they can attach in the surprise round. If they beat your initiative, they can do their drain damage before you can get an attack in. If enough attach to you, and you don't have lots of attacks, you can't get them off fast enough.

 

[Jhulae]

The hide check isn't really obscene. Your Dragon example wouldn't work with a surprise, as the Dragon has a lot more HD and Spot as a class skill. A single use of his breath weapon will destroy all stirges.
Even if they attach to the Dragon, he will easily beat their grapple checks.

Most of that remains true for PCs, too. Even 1st level heroes have a good chance to succeed the grapple check to remove the Stirge.

On top of that, Stirges leave after they have dealt 4 points of constitution damage. They probably will not attack all the same target (that would be counter-intuitive - they risk not getting enough blood of their victim if they have to share), unless there aren't enough.

If the dragon is sleeping, having 50 ranks in spot is just as good as having 0.

Yes, once it's awake, it can take them off, but, if it loses initiative...

 

[Piratecat]

If they surprise you, they can attach in the surprise round. If they beat your initiative, they can do their drain damage before you can get an attack in. If enough attach to you, and you don't have lots of attacks, you can't get them off fast enough.

Nope, at least for part of what you said. You can move or attack in the surprise round, but not both. A stirge couldn't close into your space (and as tiny creatures they draw AoOs just entering the same space as their victim) and attack before init is rolled.

Combat is cyclical; everybody acts in turn in a regular cycle of rounds. Combat follows this sequence:

1. Each combatant starts out flat-footed. Once a combatant acts, he or she is no longer flat-footed.
2. Determine which characters are aware of their opponents at the start of the battle. If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds of combat begin. The combatants who are aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take one action (either a standard action or a move action) during the surprise round. Combatants who were unaware do not get to act in the surprise round. If no one or everyone starts the battle aware, there is no surprise round.
3. Combatants who have not yet rolled initiative do so. All combatants are now ready to begin their first regular round of combat.
4. Combatants act in initiative order (highest to lowest).
5. When everyone has had a turn, the combatant with the highest initiative acts again, and steps 4 and 5 repeat until combat ends.

To me, stirges seem like a dangerous monster who are silly-deadly if the DM makes a rules error, but who are pretty reasonable otherwise.

 

[Legildur]

Most of that remains true for PCs, too. Even 1st level heroes have a good chance to succeed the grapple check to remove the Stirge.

Given the stirges lousy grapple check (even with the obscene racial modifier) I'd have to agree with you.... except "To remove an attached stirge through grappling, the opponent must achieve a pin against the stirge."

While a pin can be achieved as an attack, it does no damage and so won't kill the stirge. Probably just better off grappling it... or attacking with a light weapon at the -4 penalty.

 

[Henry]

Here's a really funny trick for said Great Wyrm dragon to play:

1. Stirges attack, and attach.
2. Dragon flies up in the air about 30 feet, and drops like a stone (stops flying) straight to the ground.
3. Dragon takes 3d6 damage, and easily lives, stirges take 3d6 damage, and die.
4. Dragon complains about "damned pests..."