StormWorld Sorcerer

BluWolf

Explorer
I have posted peices of this before but it has been awhile and I wanted see if anyone had some additional thoughts??

STORMWORLD-SORCERER

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Sorcerers have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Charisma determines how powerful a spell a sorcerer can cast, how many spells the sorcerer can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist. To cast a spell, a sorcerer must have a Charisma score of 10 + the spell?s level. A sorcerer gets bonus spells cast per day based on Charisma. The Difficulty Class of a saving throw against a sorcerer?s spell is 10 + the spell?s level + the sorcerer?s Charisma modifier. Sorcerors gain additional spells known per level from Intelligence modifier (both positive and negative).
Like a wizard, a sorcerer benefits from high Dexterity and Constitution scores.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d4.
Class Skills
The sorcerer?s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Alchemy (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (All) (Int), Literacy (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int, exclusive skill), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4: Skills for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) ??4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.
CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the sorcerer.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons and no armor.
Eschew Materials: At first level Sorcerers gain the eschew materials feat for free. This feat operates as per the feat described in T&B pg. 40.
Spells: Unchanged.
Perilous Casting: Sorcerers have the ability to cast arcane spells they have witnessed. Being creatures with the ability to directly tap magical energies they have the ability to empower magical constructs (or weaves) much easier than a mundane creature that uses magical formulae to evoke magical power. Thus they can witness how someone has accessed a certain iteration of arcane effect and then attempt the same exercise. However, due to their imperfect understanding of the formula they are attempting an imperfect and unstable release of magical energy. This is a perilous endeavor.
In order to cast a spell using the perilous casting ability, the sorcerer must make a spell craft check at the time of the spell casting to identify that the spell is a) arcane and b) identify the level of the spell. This is a free action per the spell craft skill and counter spelling.
In order to attempt a spellcraft check the spell being cast must have either a verbal or somantic component.
If the Sorcerer than has an unused spell slot of the same level as the spell being cast he can attempt to reflexively cast that spell with in the next three rounds.
The DC to attempt the casting is 20 + the spell level.
The check is a D20 + the sorcerer's CHA modifier + ½ his Sorcerer level.
In addition, the DC is modified by +2 for each Metamagic feat used in the original casting of the spell that the sorcerer himself does not have. Example; a sorcerer attempting to perilously cast a maximized fireball without actually having the maximize spell feat would need to roll against a DC of 28. (fireball 3rd level, maximized +3 lvls, +2 for not having the feat).
The sorcerer cannot use his own metamagic feats too alter the spell, unless those feats were used in the original casting. Example, if a sorcerer attempts perilously cast a fireball he has just witnessed, that was not maximized, he could not then attempt to alter that spell. Even though he may have the maximize spell feat.

If the Sorcerer does not cast the spell in the next three rounds he loses the ability to cast it. The fleeting insight into that particular magical construct has vanished.
The sorcerer cannot cast any other spell prior to casting this one. If he does he loses the ability to cast that spell. He has lost the insight he gained into that magical construct (weave).
For purposes of resisting, the DC of the spell cast is based on the sorcerer's spell DC. While metamagic feats are used to determine the level of the spell slot needed to cast, the spell recast by the sorcerer does not benefit from those feats unless he has those feats. Thus, a sorcerer attempting to cast a maximized fireball he just witnessed would need a 6th level spell slot to cast the spell. However, the resulting fireball would not be maximized.
Exception, if the sorcerer has the metamagic feats used in the original casting of the spell, he can gain the benefits of those feats.
If the sorcerer fails the DC this means he has just released magic in an unintended and uncontrolled manor. The spell goes wild. This results in a roll on the wild surge table and loss of that spell slot for the day.
The Sorcerer does not retain the ability to cast spells cast in this fashion and never gets any better at casting spells in this manor. However, if the sorcerer has an open known spell slot he may make a second spell craft roll (per the standard skill rules) to permanently know that spell.

Sorcerers cannot perilously cast arcane spells cast as an innate ability.
While sorcerers benefit from the eschew materials feat, they may not perilously cast spells with material components that are not covered by this feat. So while the eschew materials feat allows a sorcerer to perilously cast a fireball spell, it would not allow him to perilously cast the simulacrum spell. Unless he just happened to have the prescribed material components handy.
A Sorcerer can attempt to counter spell using the perilous casting ability. Per the Counter Spelling rules he must first ready an action too counter spell. If he knows the spell he is attempting to cast, resolve normally per the counter spelling rules.
If he does not know the spell he can then follow the procedure to cast perilously, as per above. If he succeeds in his perilous casting DC, the spell is countered. If he fails a wild surge will occur and the opponents spell goes off normally.
Summon Familiar: At first level a sorcerer may choose to forgo EVER summoning a familiar and aquire a Meta magic feat instead. This feat can be used for general or meta magic feats. However, any level requireemnts for meta-magic feats still apply. Once forgone, the sorcerer may NEVER obtain a familiar.
Languages: All modern languages are considered class skills for sorcerers.
 
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Good work BluWolf, i think u r gettin' closer to the sorcerer we hoped to see when Wotc announced a class like this in their new edition of dungeons and dragons.

I may add some FEAT to let the time being longer before castin the spell

-From 3 rounds to 3 turns (basic one, like precise shot for archers, CHA 15+)

-From 3 turns to 3 hours (CHA 17+, able to cast at least 5rd level spell)

-From 3 hours to 3 days (CHA 19+, able to cast 7th level spell)

What do u think?

What about put some wild effects in case of failure (it's not hard to revive the 2nd edition tome of magic wild mage table of effects and was quite good, i did it, but it's in italian... but i can translate it 4 u, if u think it could be useful)

Steven McRownt
 

An interesting thought on the feats. Not sure if I like the concept (stylisticly) but I don't see too much of a problem with the mechanics. Keep in mind they still would not be able to cast another spell between when they observed and when they cast perilously. This would limit the feats you supposed so maybe I would make just 1 feat;

Extend Insight (Meta)

PreReq: Cha 13+, ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells, ability to cast perilously

Benefit: By making a concetration check each round after the third round, a sorcerer may maintian the fleeting glympse into a spell he has just witnessed. Any action other than normal movement requires an additonal concetration check. Any damage sustained would incur a concetration check at the usual modifier.

Normal: A sorcerer has to cast a spell he has witnessed within three rounds or lose the ability to do so.

I have been working on a wild surge table. Its not ready to be posted yet. The problem I have had with just about any wildsurge table I have seen is although they have many results (usually 100) they are actually very limiting to DMs and irrational.

OK, I know, a wildsurge table should be irrational but I have a real problem if a wildsurge occurs in my game when someone casts a fireball and suddenly everyone in 100 yards is pelted with tulips. I just don't want that sort of silliness in my game on a regular basis.

The table I'm working on tries to maintain some form of relation to the the spell originally intended. The randomness comes in on target, range duration, success and intent.

example: you cast a fireball at a group of orcs. Instead they are all hit with a "healing" ball!!

You cast haste on your fighter, instead he is slowed.

You cast inflict wounds on an orc but instead everyone in a 30' radius of the orc gets inflcit minor wounds.

You could succeed wildly or get half your spell slots for the day drained.
I want the DM to have some input into the results to encourage story enhancement. So the entries under the roll read like" Spell intent reversed, target random" or "Area of effect doubled" or "Backlash, Ref save vs. original DC or dazed for X# of rounds".
 
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First of all i have to mention some good philosophical consideration appeared elsewhere on this board on sorcerer today, that u shoul read.
Then i have to make some other consideration on your alternative sorcerer.

Talkin about the perilous casting the check could be made, instead of a fixed DC modified (also) by (half of) the sorcerer level, as a (exclusive) class skill.

Then u should include, or explicitate in all the spell he sees, also the idea that are both arcane and divine (those ones with higher DC, something like 25 or even 30).

Lastly, altered spells with metamagic feats are more difficult to understand and imitate, so the DC should improved by 2*level added...

What do u think?

Steven McRownt
 

You were gonig to mention another post on sorcerers??

I thought of making perilous casting an exclusive class skill but felt it was better served being a class feature. In addition, making it a skill would allow it to be influenced too much by a dumping of skill points and skill focus feats that would lead to unneccessary DC inflation.

Also, the Sorcerer doesn't get many skill points to begin with. Trying to do this with a class based skill would challenge all but he most dedicated roleplayer to put skill points into anything but perilous casting.

Sorcerers can only do Arcane magic not divine. The major reason being 1) different cosmology in my campaign world accounts for the variance in magic type 2) IMO allwoing them access to divine magic robs divine spell caster of uniqeness and makes the sorcerer too unbalanced. Of course if someone wanted to allow it for their campaign world I would start with DC 25 + spell level. I would also change MM Feats too +3 instead of +2.

The check would be a D20 + Cha mod, no class level.

Factoring metamagic feats into a perilous casting DC in the way you suggest would (without using a class skill approach) make it dangerous too the point of being useless. No sorcerer would attempt it.

Setting the DC as 20+spell level+MM feats is quick an easy to do in the heat of battle. No charts for the DM to look up.

Using D20 + CHA mod +1/2 your elvel is easy for the player.
 
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Hey there.

I'm pretty sure that Steven was referring to my ideas for modifying the sorcerer class, since he likewise suggested I take a look at yours. The thread is entitled, "Remaking the Sorcerer."
 


.... :mad: my server lost the connection when i was posting....


Anyway. I am going to summarize my long dissertations on sorcerers, 'cause it was quite long and i'm quite lazy....

First of all, i think that a sorcerer should have a d6 instead of a d4 as a HD. After all he's not a wizard closed for years in libraries to study, but someone gifted by his ancestors that has to move a lot to hide his powers....

Then i must say that the idea of a class skill is better, because in style with the other game rules and mechanics. After all it has become something skill related instead of knowledge related...
And a sorcerer (a normal one, not something maximized) will have to choose accurately his skills because he has few skill points to put in lots of interesting skills....

Finally i am very courious to see your wild magic table... i am using for a wild sorcerer in my group a system divided in 3 tables, increasing in effects... but that's long to explain, i will do it next time!

Steven Mc Rownt

ps I let two people of worchester know each other on a messageboards!!!!
 

I agree with you on the additional HP in principal. In practice, I have been using the CCE to rewrite the classes in my campaign world and adding the extra HP seems to unbalance the sorcerer. I also wanted to increase his skill points but this too put him over the edge.

On the class skill vs. class feature subject. I still l beleave this ability is better off as a class feature and is more in line with the core system. You are playing a sorcerer and under this approach you should not have to go outside of the level advancement to gain a benefit in a key feature of your class.

Example; one could make the argument that a fighter (or any class really) should not gain in BAB when they advance. They should spend skill points to improve various abilities. This really starts to get into a much more in depth discussion regarding classless/levelless systems vs. the D20 system. A subject that is really outside of this thread.

Any class feature from any class can be made either a skill or a feat. Exclusive or not. In order to make this a DISTINGUISHING feature of the sorcerer class I think this ability needs to remain a class feature and not a skill.

As you go up in levels as a sorcerer you get better at it. It does not reflect an increase in knowledge. It reflects an increase in power. Remember that the sorcerer never gets any better at understanding the individual spells. She just gets more powerful at tapping magical energy. To the sorcerer, all the world's problems are nails. She just keeps developing a bigger and bigger hammer.

So along this line of thought a player should not be penalized by having to take a few of her precious skill points to improve a feature of her class. The fighter doesn't.

Also, this ability IS sensitive to skill points already. Spell craft. If the player has to divide their skill points between these two skills they will almost never have any other skills at all. INT is not the key ability for sorcerers. Its CHA. Making this class feature a class skill starts to penalize the sorcerer even at the time of creation as a player is forced to weigh the importance of putting her highest score in INT or CHA.

Finally, as a class skill this would infer, even more, that a sorcerer's powers are based on knowledge rather than a force of personal power. The sorcerer is a force of magical nature not a student of man made artificial formula like a wizard.

The Wild surge table is on hold as there are no sorcerers in my current campaign. IT will probably be several months before I get the time to return to the subject.

Thanks for you?re input though. This is actually helping me further clarify some of my points.
 
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I admit that your ideas convinced me. You're right saying that with so many skill points a sorcerer couldn't have some more (e so important) skills to split his precious SkillP!!!!

But talkin' about the CCE, it will be fairly unbalanced with higher HD and more SkillPoints, but in reality... if u think that a sorcerer has no access to bonus feat at all... dunno BluWolf, perhaps it was miscalculated the sorcerer table on CCE (^_^)

Is that possible? (...after all who wrote the CCE? Why should he better than our long playtesting saying that a sorcerer made that way is unbalanced?)

Steven McRownt
 

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