Storytelling vs Roleplaying

[tyrlaan]

Point the first:

I never said that HHH was a good roleplayiing game. My point was that there is nothing in the rules/ mechanics that prevent it from being played as one just as there is nothing stopping anyone from playing D&D as a tactical skirmish game.

Then by your definition, everything is a roleplaying game because there's nothing in the rules/mechanics of any game that prevents it. You are so intent on subdividing the world of roleplaying games that you've just expanded it well beyond the initial purpose of the term. At this point I think you're defeating your own purpose.

Point the second:

While not purely a roleplaying game, SOTC certainly has some roleplaying elements and most likely opportunities for regular roleplaying during play. Mechanical elements that require players to operate outside thier roles are what make SOTC a storytelling game, not a complete absence of opportunity for roleplaying.

As Hussar states, SOTC flat out calls itself a roleplaying game and then chooses to further clarify its nature by saying it is a story-telling game. I note that you elected not to respond to Hussar's comment.

So are you saying SOTC is wrong? And if so, what position are you in to make such a claim?

I take great issue with you claiming that any game dubbed a role-playing game is not a role-playing game. See further Obryn's comments along these lines if you are unclear as to why this might bother me.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Point the first:


Then by your definition, everything is a roleplaying game because there's nothing in the rules/mechanics of any game that prevents it. You are so intent on subdividing the world of roleplaying games that you've just expanded it well beyond the initial purpose of the term. At this point I think you're defeating your own purpose.

Point the second:

As Hussar states, SOTC flat out calls itself a roleplaying game and then chooses to further clarify its nature by saying it is a story-telling game. I note that you elected not to respond to Hussar's comment.

So are you saying SOTC is wrong? And if so, what position are you in to make such a claim?

I take great issue with you claiming that any game dubbed a role-playing game is not a role-playing game. See further Obryn's comments along these lines if you are unclear as to why this might bother me.

SOTC isn't wrong. " By roleplaying game we mean a story-telling game which has several players." They are very forthright in the description of thier game. The writers clearly understood the aims of the design they were going for and identified them correctly as storytelling. The writers are also clear on thier own use of the term "roleplaying".

I have no idea why that bothers you.

 

[tyrlaan]

SOTCs words don't bother me. Your "rephrasing" to state it is not a roleplaying game does.

 

[ExploderWizard]

SOTCs words don't bother me. Your "rephrasing" to state it is not a roleplaying game does.

What rephrasing was done? I restated the quote posted by Doug and didn't change a single word. The statement was made by the game's designers not me.

You seem to be confusing what appears to be a question of absolutes vs catagorization based on game design goals.

"You can roleplay during the game" does not make it a roleplaying game by design, thus the Hungry Hungry Hippos example.

It is a simple matter: what are the expected goals of the game? If the expected goals are to play a role as you experience the game then it's an rpg. If the expected goals are to engage in creating colloraborative fiction through the medium of the game then it's a storytelling game.

 

[tyrlaan]

The quote from SOTC:

By roleplaying game, we mean a story-telling game which has several players.

Your quote (again):

While not purely a roleplaying game, SOTC certainly has some roleplaying elements and most likely opportunities for regular roleplaying during play.

And:

I agree with the authors. It is a storytelling game in which the participants also roleplay.

It's clear as day that you are rephrasing and not merely restating.

SOTC defines itself as a role-playing game and then specifies that it is a story-telling game. This implies that a story-telling game, at least in the mind of SOTC, is a subset of role-playing games.

You state that SOTC is "not purely a roleplaying game" and "...a storytelling game in which the participants also roleplay." You are quite specifically turning it around to label SOTC as a story-telling game and not a role-playing game.

SOTC says: it's a RPG (subset: story-telling)
You say: it's a story-telling game NOT a RPG

 

[ExploderWizard]

The quote from SOTC:


Your quote (again):

And:

It's clear as day that you are rephrasing and not merely restating.

SOTC defines itself as a role-playing game and then specifies that it is a story-telling game. This implies that a story-telling game, at least in the mind of SOTC, is a subset of role-playing games.

You state that SOTC is "not purely a roleplaying game" and "...a storytelling game in which the participants also roleplay." You are quite specifically turning it around to label SOTC as a story-telling game and not a role-playing game.

SOTC says: it's a RPG (subset: story-telling)
You say: it's a story-telling game NOT a RPG

OK. So your position is than anything is a roleplaying game if the designers say so even if such a statement conflicts with the designer's own definition of the object of play? Interesting.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

OK. So your position is than anything is a roleplaying game if the designers say so even if such a statement conflicts with the designer's own definition of the object of play? Interesting.

There is no conflict if you do assume that roleplaying and story-telling are not mutually exclusive. Or even more specifically, that story-telling is a subset of roleplaying.

 

[tyrlaan]

OK. So your position is than anything is a roleplaying game if the designers say so even if such a statement conflicts with the designer's own definition of the object of play? Interesting.

I said nothing of the sort. In fact, all I did was point out that you rephrased and did not merely restate. Please review my previous post.

 

[ExploderWizard]

There is no conflict if you do assume that roleplaying and story-telling are not mutually exclusive. Or even more specifically, that story-telling is a subset of roleplaying.

They are mutually exclusive. A game can contain elements of both. An rpg may have some elements of story involved. If these elements require players to operate outside the role being played and effectively play the role of storyteller during actual play then the game has morphed into a storytelling game. This becomes even more so if the stated design of the game is to create collaborative stories instead of experiencing the game from within a chosen role.

 

[ExploderWizard]

This implies that a story-telling game, at least in the mind of SOTC, is a subset of role-playing games.

And I repeat, the designers claim makes this true?