D&D 5E STR and DEX fighter stupid?

[Minsc]

If you're playing the numbers game, you should go for one or the other as a Fighter.

 

[Asatania_GM]

Int8 is stupid, Wis8 is unwise, Cha8 is vile. Specializing in combat is the best example of a "narrow niche".

Someone suggested some time ago to pick archery style to cover for Dex12-14. I think that's a good compromise.

Stupid, unwise and vile is a bit extreme for 8's.

Below average, yes, but not horribly so. If I recall, the standard deviation of 3d6 is around 3, which puts an 8 within a single deviation of the mean. Not the brightest, wisest, or more charismatic but not so beyond the pale that anyone would think it unusual.

While I wouldn't personally play a fighter that way, I can see where someone else might.

 

[krakistophales]

Really? I'm not seeing it. If you consider 14 Dex/10 Wis versus 10 Dex/14 Wis, you're looking at +2 to initiative, Stealth, and bow attack/damage (when you fall back on the bow) versus +2 to Perception and Insight. Wis saves are slightly more important than Dex saves, but the difference is not huge. Perception and Stealth are both very valuable; initiative is better than Insight; being able to pull out a bow is a useful backup option. Seems like a wash.

Furthermore, there is a key difference between Stealth and Perception which tilts things in favor of Stealth for a non-specialist PC. When the party is trying to sneak, the only Stealth check that matters is the worst one in the party. But when the party is trying to detect something, the only Perception check that matters is the best one*; and when using passive Perception, the non-specialist can't contribute at all. Thus, it is better for everyone to have a medium-good Stealth than for one person to have godlike Stealth, and better for one person to have godlike Perception than for everyone to have medium-good.

14 is not a huge investment, stat-wise. It's when you go for 16 that you start paying a heavy price.

[size=-2]*Except during an ambush/surprise situation. But in that case, initiative is also of vital importance.[/size]

I'm just not sure if a 14 in dex vs wisdom is really cost effective. There are many more skills that rely on wis than dex, and just getting +2 to init, ranged attacks, saves, and dex skills isn't that great. If I'm wearing heavy armor anyway, I have disadvantage on stealth so +2 means nothing, and why would I want to sneak around anyway? And in all my games, where one we are at level 7 and another level 12, I've never once had to draw a bow or felt that flying enemies were such a huge issue that they couldn't be dealt with.

The fighter isn't meant to have uber utility, and d and d is a team game, so when flying enemies come around, either the caster will cast fly on me or him and the ranged attacker will pluck them out of the sky. For everything else, there seems to be just strength, heavy armor, and great weapon fighting if we're talking about effectiveness as a fighter and DPS.

 

[bedir than]

The fighter isn't meant to have uber utility, and d and d is a team game, so when flying enemies come around, either the caster will cast fly on me or him and the ranged attacker will pluck them out of the sky. For everything else, there seems to be just strength, heavy armor, and great weapon fighting if we're talking about effectiveness as a fighter and DPS.

Except you just told your team that ranged attacker is useless. That's why you aren't it.

Or you could be it, and ya know, be the guy that does both ranged attack and melee attack

 

[Dausuul]

I'm just not sure if a 14 in dex vs wisdom is really cost effective. There are many more skills that rely on wis than dex, and just getting +2 to init, ranged attacks, saves, and dex skills isn't that great. If I'm wearing heavy armor anyway, I have disadvantage on stealth so +2 means nothing, and why would I want to sneak around anyway?

Medium armor, not heavy. You wear a breastplate; it costs you a couple points of AC, which I should have factored into the above comparison, but you get a semi-decent stealth check, better initiative, and a tolerable long-range attack option. It wouldn't make much sense in a traditional party where the rogue is the only sneaky one, but if you wanted the whole party to be reasonably stealthy, it would be a decent compromise. You keep the offensive power of the two-handed weapon and Great Weapon Mastery, while sacrificing some defense to gain utility.

 

[krakistophales]

Except you just told your team that ranged attacker is useless. That's why you aren't it.

Or you could be it, and ya know, be the guy that does both ranged attack and melee attack

Where did I say that ranged attacker is useless? All I said was that the caster and ranged attacker will pluck fliers out of the sky.

Let me rephrase: For MELEE, there just seems to be strength, heavy armor, and great weapon fighting if we're talking about effectiveness and DPS. Ranged attackers can be savages and do a ton of DPS, but I'm talking melee.

 

[PnPgamer]

or take Int because the one Int save in the game is absolutely terrifying if you fail it.

What is this save?

 

[Huntsman57]

A dex based fighter makes a lot more sense overall to me. 2 handed weapon focused fighters aside, a rapier matches the damage output of the best one handed strength based weapons. Sure, in terms of AC plate armor will be better than a 20 dex (which you could have by 6th level using point buy...4th if variant human) and studded leather by 1 point, but that seems less important than having a strong bonus to dexterity saving throws which are one of the most common save types, whereas strength saving throws are rare. We also get bonuses as a Battlemaster to abilities like parry. If you like the versatility of using a ranged weapon when the occasion calls for it, again dex comes in handy.

I guess if you foresaw that that the DM would be giving you a girdle of giant strength we could call a strength fighter the clear victor, but without knowing the future it doesn't seem worth it.

Dex and Con should be the first and second stats of a Battlemaster or Champion fighter IMO. Int of course plays a part in an EK. Otherwise Wisdom is probably the next most important since that is also a common saving throw. Charisma could come after this just because Chr skills are just so clutch, but you would probably be better off leaving the talking to the party sorc, paladin, or bard. Strength easily comes in dead last in most cases.

 

[PnPgamer]

You cant multiclass into rogue if you dump dex!

 

[bedir than]

Where did I say that ranged attacker is useless? All I said was that the caster and ranged attacker will pluck fliers out of the sky.

Let me rephrase: For MELEE, there just seems to be strength, heavy armor, and great weapon fighting if we're talking about effectiveness and DPS. Ranged attackers can be savages and do a ton of DPS, but I'm talking melee.

When you declare that your character doesn't want to do something because that's the realm of others you are declaring that your character feels that such a task if of zero importance to them. Your character has decided that certain tasks are below them, and therefore should not be done. Let the others do it.

That isn't heroic. I build heroes.