Strangest Rule Lawyering

[Planesdragon]

My DM is convinced that simply being unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity. If you disarm someone, you get an attack of opportunity.

That actually doesn't sound that bad. It doesn't work especially well for D&D's model, but if a guy with a sword comes at me and I don't have a sword, he's going to be make a lot more hits against me, given that I don't have a shiney metal bar to even try and block him.

'course, each character should only be able to get the AoO on one target per round...

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding. It's not funny if you are. And he doesn't say its a house rule? DMs like this exhist? No way. I can't believe it. Not possible.

You _are_ kidding, right? Right?

I wish I was kidding. He's normally a pretty rules-lawyery type, but seems to be misunderstood on this. It's only come up once so far and I forgot to bring it up again after the game, so I'll have to remember to talk to him about it.

Or do the half-ogre thing.

He also lets you take an attack of opportunity if your attacker rolls a natural 1 on his roll, but admits that's a house rule.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

That actually doesn't sound that bad. It doesn't work especially well for D&D's model, but if a guy with a sword comes at me and I don't have a sword, he's going to be make a lot more hits against me, given that I don't have a shiney metal bar to even try and block him.

'course, each character should only be able to get the AoO on one target per round...

Yeah it sorta makes sense, but it makes disarming way more powerful. I'm pretty sure I could break the game with Improved Disarm + Combat Reflexes + spiked chain + natural reach.

 

[mmu1]

Definitely not an example of a bad DM, but an example of what to me was a sidetrack and break in suspension of disbelief of epic proportions...

We kill a bunch of orcs deep inside a forest after drawing them into an ambush, and we search the area. We find an ornate box they must have looted from their victims (we found them at a battlesite) the DM says weighs about 10 pounds, and has a very good lock we can't open - and we don't want to break it. We're on the track of other orcs who seem to have taken some human soldiers prisoner. I'm playing a very strong Barbarian 1 / Druid 4.

Me: "Ok, you guys are pretty heavily loaded, so why don't I carry it. I'll start tracking the orcs that went off with the prisoners, then?"

DM: "The box doesn't actually have any handles."

Me: "Right... I'll secure some rope around it, make a loop, and throw it on my back with the rest of my gear. So, do you guys think I should scou..."

DM: "How do you tie a single loop of rope to a box? It's going to slip off. You'll have to use more rope, and like, cross-tie it. It'll use more rope."

Me: "Fine, I have 50'. I tie it as many ways as I have to."

DM: "I'm going to require a Rope Use check."

Me: "Whaaa...? Ever tie a package for shipping? I need to make a check?"

DM: "Yes, well, this will be jostled and so on, you have to make sure it's secure."

Me: "*sigh* Fine. 16. Do I...?"

DM: *very long pause* "Ok, you tie it up."

Me: "All right, shall I track then."

DM: "Do you have a shield? Ok, you either can't carry the box on your back and draw your sword at the same time, or you won't be able to use your shield."

Me: "I dump the box on the ground and start walking."

 

[Zogg]

That would have been my response too, mmu1. And after that session, I would have called the DM on it and seriously considered whether or not I returned. That's just ridiculous.

 

[Scarbonac]

Re: Re: Strangest Rule Lawyering

Dear God, yes.

• Did you know that Psionic Blow (sic) allows for unlimited damage dice being added to an attack? No, really! It doesn't say that you can do it only once!
• 3.5 Druids can change to Wild Shape, cast Awaken on themselves, gain 1d3 charisma, morph back to normal form, and repeat for a nigh-unlimited charisma bonus!
• Back in the olden days (AD&D), when someone got 5/2 attacks, they could attack 5 times on their first turn, and then skip their second.

*Head explodes*

 

[buzz]

I don't know if this counts as lawyering, but it's definitely the dumbest use of rules I've encountered post-Junior-High. Apologies in advance if the subject of this is an ENWorld member.

I once read a post on r.g.f.dnd by a DM who used initiative to handle... NEGOTIATIONS.

Basically, the players (and him, too I guess) were either sick of or feared the possibility that someone they were talking to might conceivably "get the drop on them" while they talking to or interrogating them. That is, suddenly whip out a weapon and maybe get a higher init roll, leaving them flat-footed until they got a chance to act.

So, basically, anytime this party dealt with almost anyone, they would switch to "initiative mode"; everyone rolled initiative and then each PC/NPC spoke on their initiative count. This way, nobody was ever flat-footed in the event that the person they were talking to decided to attack.

I tried to explain why this was so dang stupid, but they guy pretty much ignored me.

I mean, not only is this SERIOUS metagaming ("We go into initiative mode so that we can't get sneak-attacked," said the cleric), but it essentially takes the control of time (i.e., the decision when the game needs to switch to combat rounds) out of the hands of the DM.

Beyond dumb.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Yeah it sorta makes sense, but it makes disarming way more powerful. I'm pretty sure I could break the game with Improved Disarm + Combat Reflexes + spiked chain + natural reach.

I always make sure that I have a means to shatter a game, at least with some DMs (Either a combination of spells I could prepare and cast anythime, or some feats or magic Items I could get on short notice, which make the character go from reasonable to beyond-powergamer). So if they mess it up, using very stupid rules or judgement calls, I wake the sleeping munchkin und have my fun. Right at the moment I play a rogue which I really enjoy, but the DM's a bit weird and has made some really weird statements or judgement calls. I almost expect him to make a real big screw-up any time now, and for that case I can become a damage-monster quick enough. Luckily, the mistakes he made so far were either small enough or we could talk sense into him, but it might not be next time.

His atrocities (though no rules-lawyering) included

• Having a team of horses (including carriage) being swept away by a sream that went to our knees and gave us no problems in the least (we actually searched a good spot for crossing it, but all of a sudden the horses were swept away)
• The 2nd Level Rogue with superior initiative (well, sort of: he stood before a window - with several weapons, including the bow of my dex 19 or so elven ranger, trained on him, and he got away before we had the chance to attack, without us having had the chance to roll initiative)
• He wanted everyone of us take a level of rogue as we entered a guild (we talked him into just taking a couple of ranks in skills they want us to have), which wouldn't have fit in most character concepts, and would have delayed entry into PrCs, and multiclassing XP, for the rest.
• He charged us with improving our influence by winning a chariot race (none of us has the least ability with horses), and of course the racetrack was completely covered in anti-magic fields (and my character was a fey'ri with the imperative to let noone see his true identity - which is kind of problematic on an antimagic field, especially if they expect a casually clad gold elf).
• We were attacked by a town guard for leveling a goblin village, because "they were valuable trading partners". Of course, noone told us something like that.

 

[Piratecat]

[*]Having a team of horses (including carriage) being swept away by a sream that went to our knees and gave us no problems in the least (we actually searched a good spot for crossing it, but all of a sudden the horses were swept away)

I've done some research on flash floods, and this isn't entirely ridiculous - assuming that the carriage was caught by the water broadside, and it dragged the horses along with it.

Depends on the speed of the water, of course.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Cleave

CLEAVE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack.
Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.
Special: A fighter may select Cleave as one of his fighter bonus feats.

= = = = =

I am not saying the DM in the original example was justified. But Cleave is not as clearly written as it could be. The first phrase in particular, up to the closing parenthesis, is vague.

Putting on my rules lawyer hat: I hit the orc warrior for 6 hp of damage, but the orc shaman has cast shield other, so the warrior only takes 3 hp of damage. Can I still Cleave? After all, I did deal enough damage "to make it drop" - it just didn't drop because of the shield other.

Edit - even better: the orc warrior has the Diehard feat, so it doesn't drop when reduced to below 0 hp. Can I still Cleave?

Yeah. I know. Stupid. But that's what can happen when things are vague.

Also. Can you Cleave with a spell? There is nothing in the first part of the feat description that says you have to use a weapon. (The part about "with the same weapon" doesn't come until later.) I could see how a rules-lawyer could go either way with this one.