Strength Damage Bonus for Lance?

[Schmoe]

A lance is a two-handed weapon.

A lance may be used one-handed while mounted (PHB, pg 118).

While mounted, does a character apply 1x or 1-1/2x his strength bonus to the damage roll?

The rules seem to indicate that the bonus is 1-1/2x, but it is somewhat unclear.

PHB, pg 113

Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon."

Is this clarified anywhere?

 

[MatthewJHanson]

I would say 1x damage. I don't see anything specific addressing it, but when a character weilds a one-handed weapon in two hands, he gains 1.5x, thus it seems to me that the deciding factor is how many hands are actually being used.

 

[Jdvn1]

Right. If you want lance-and-a-shield, it's 1x Str. If you use two hands for the lance, it's 1.5x.

 

[DanMcS]

When using it in one hand, you're not using it two-handed, so you don't get the benefits of using it two handed.

So many people have made this screwup, even though it's perfectly clear, that they addressed it in the FAQ.

You can get a host of benefits from wielding a twohanded weapon, such as 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage (and twice your damage bonus from the Power Attack feat) and a +4 bonus on your opposed attack roll if someone tries to disarm you. So when is a weapon “twohanded?” For example, a lance is a two-handed weapon, right? But you can wield it in one hand when you’re mounted. Since the weapons table shows that a lance is a two-handed weapon, I get all the two-handed benefits no matter how I wield the lance, right?
Wrong. Table 7–5 in the Player’s Handbook lists weapons as light, one-handed, or two-handed strictly as a matter of convenience. These size categories are always relative to the
wielder’s size, as explained in some detail in the section on weapon size on page 113 in the Player’s Handbook (also see next question).
When the combat rules speak of “two-handed” weapons, they’re referring to how the weapon is being used. A Medium character using a Medium longsword in two hands is using a
“two-handed” weapon. The same character using a Medium lance in one hand while mounted is using a one-handed weapon.

 

[Fieari]

Except that in this case, the FAQ is wrong. Not only is it wrong, it directly contradicts the Rules as Written. "1 handed" or "2 handed" weapons have NOTHING to do with how many hands are required to weild them. Because a Small Greatsword (designed for a halfling) is still a 2 handed weapon even when weilded by a giant, who is holding said greatsword in one hand, perhaps even between two fingers like a toothpick. A 2 handed weapon is and always has been a weapon DESCRIPTOR in 3.5e. It's there so we can have greatswords made for halflings.

As you quoted, all "two handed weapons" get 1.5x bonus on a powerattack.

A lance is a two handed weapon.

Now, as a side effect, all two handed weapons must be held in two hands.

EXCEPT for the lance, if you are on horseback. This is a noted exception for the lance and lance alone. It's a two-handed weapon that can be weilded in one hand. VERY clearly written.

So the FAQ is wrong, dead wrong, and the only thing that will convince me otherwise is an errata that reads something like "a lance can be weilded as a one handed weapon on horseback" instead of "a lance can be weilded in one hand on horseback."

Note that I'm doing this from memory, and don't have the EXACT rule quotations on me, but we've had this argument here on ENWorld often enough that I can do this by rote.

Edit: (By the way, if you're offended by the concept of the FAQ being wrong, don't be. The FAQ not only contradicts the RAW on numerous occasions, it even contradicts itself within the same document. Just look a few threads down in this very forum to see another thread complaining about FAQ contradictions)

 

[RigaMortus]

So the FAQ is wrong, dead wrong, and the only thing that will convince me otherwise is an errata that reads something like "a lance can be weilded as a one handed weapon on horseback" instead of "a lance can be weilded in one hand on horseback."

Translation: It doesn't work the way I want it to work, therefore WotC FAQ is wrong and I am right.

 

[Jdvn1]

As you quoted, all "two handed weapons" get 1.5x bonus on a powerattack.

A lance is a two handed weapon.

Now, as a side effect, all two handed weapons must be held in two hands.

First of all you get a 2x bonus when you wield a weapon with two hands on a powerattack. But power attack wasn't quoted, so I don't know what you're talking about.

And, wrong, two-handed weapons don't have to be held in two hands. A large creature can hold a medium two-handed weapon in one hand. He takes penalties, though, because it's not made for him.

While the FAQ is wrong in some occasions, I believe it's correct here and doesn't contradict the SRD nor the book.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't see anything specific addressing it, but when a character weilds a one-handed weapon in two hands, he gains 1.5x, thus it seems to me that the deciding factor is how many hands are actually being used.

He doesn't get 1.5x for wielding a two-handed weapon, though. He gets 1.5x for wielding a one-handed weapon in two hands.

Equipment: Weapons: One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his or her Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls.

Now, since the lance is not a one-handed weapon, this section is irrelevant. The lance is a two-handed weapon, and thus:

Equipment: Weapons: Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.

The description of the lance contains text providing an exception to the first sentence ("While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand"), but not to the second - so you apply 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a lance, regardless of how many hands are used. Unlike the description of one-handed weapons, the description for two-handed weapons doesn't limit the 1-1/2 to when you're using two hands; that applies to any melee attack you make with a two-handed weapon. It does prohibit you using a two-handed weapon at all without using two hands... except for the lance.

Note that a human wielding a Small Greatsword in one hand, for example, does so because he treats it as a one-handed weapon per the rules for inappropriately-sized weapons, and thus only deals 1x Str bonus to damage, like any other one-handed weapon wielded in one hand.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And, wrong, two-handed weapons don't have to be held in two hands. A large creature can hold a medium two-handed weapon in one hand. He takes penalties, though, because it's not made for him.

As noted above - the Large creature treats the Medium two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon. The rules for two-handed weapons are inapplicable in this case.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.

This is not how the lance works, though. It isn't treated as a one-handed weapon, therefore it remains a two-handed weapon... just one that can be wielded in one hand.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Translation: It doesn't work the way I want it to work, therefore WotC FAQ is wrong and I am right.

Well, no, it contradicts the PHB, therefore the FAQ is wrong

That FAQ answer states that if a Medium creature wields a Medium longsword in two hands, it's a two-handed weapon. Which is clearly incorrect; it's a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands.

Both the Equipment: Weapons: One-Handed Weapons section and the Power Attack feat reference a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands. If such a weapon is a two-handed weapon, those rules would not exist, since there would be no such thing as a 'one-handed weapon wielded in two hands'. Therefore the FAQ in this case doesn't know what it's on about.

First of all you get a 2x bonus when you wield a weapon with two hands on a powerattack.

You get a 2x bonus when you wield a one-handed weapon in two hands, or a two-handed weapon, on a Power Attack. Notice how there is no restriction on how many hands must be used to gain that benefit with a two-handed weapon.

Of course, the lance is the only two-handed weapon that can be wielded in one hand, so it's the only weapon that distinction is important to.

-Hyp.