D&D 5E Strength is agile

[Salamandyr]

Say these Olympic gymnasts are doing standing highjumps around 4 feet high.

4 feet = ½ (3 + Strength 5 feet) = 20 Strength

Accordingly, it means these athletes have 20 Strength.

Conversely, it could mean they are using their proficiency in Athletics to jump higher than their strength score would normally allow them to.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Pound for pound, yes they are. Which I explained in the party you didn't quote.

"Sure Half-Orcs can move more mass, but the halfling is not too many pounds behind them and they are about a quarter to a fifth the size of of a half orc! (250 pound half orc to 40 to 60 pound halfling)."

Please read the post I submitted, immediately following that one, to explaining why I think you are wrong in using this argument.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

I interpret the highjump to mean a hurdle that can be *cleared*. In which case, she seems, at least, 4 feet high.

That is exactly why I said you are wrong. That is not how high jump works in D&D.

Specifically, the D&D numbers seem to come from actual highjump world records, in which case they are clearing a ‘bar’.

Here is an example, of a running highjump to clear a bar, a kind of hurdle.

Yep. A very specialized sport. I bet they even have expertise in Athletics...

But besides that, this form of bar-clearing high jump (going lateral, landing on your back into foam mats) is also not covered in the rules. As a DM I would adjudicate something on the fly if a player ever asked to be able to do such a strange form of leap.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Conversely, it could mean they are using their proficiency in Athletics to jump higher than their strength score would normally allow them to.

Interestingly enough, my 5th-level 8 strength bard even has expertise in it. So he has a +5 Athletics check! He's quite the athlete in spite of his lithe frame and modest physique.

 

[TheLoneRanger1979]

Thing is, you need a huge strength difference to make up for the proficiency bonus of a superbly trained warrior...<snip>... Allowing a "Sword master" character concept to choose deal slashing or piercing damage for example, no matter what the damage type in the weapons table for example.

I was about to reply, when edhel did it better then me:

Strength in swordsmanship
Skill outmatches size or strength in armed combat


^ The same applies to feats of strength like powerlifting, weightlifting, parkour, gymnastics etc. As a person who strength trains, strength is a skill. Training it improves your capacity to use it, but learning to apply strength efficiently is a skill.

Yes they will. It's called physics. If you have enough force behind the attack, you can pierce plate armor. But remember, luck is a factor too. <snip>

Actually they won't, because there is another factor to consider and it's the tensile strength of the material you are trying to pierce. No matter how sharp your blade and how fast your swing, you will never realistically penetrate a hardened steel plate with a sword. Not if you are a human being anyways..... a steam engine might do it eventually if the sword doesn't break first. As for the luck and its influence, yeah, i have no issues with it

 

[Sacrosanct]

Plate mail isn't hardend steel plate. I can't think of a single armor of the middle ages that was better on the Rockwell scale than weapons of the same technology level of metallurgy and smithing. There are plenty of actual videos and pictures of weapons piercing plate armor. This shouldn't even be up for debate.

 

[Salamandyr]

Interestingly enough, my 5th-level 8 strength bard even has expertise in it. So he has a +5 Athletics check! He's quite the athlete in spite of his lithe frame and modest physique.

Which is entirely sensible for things like jumping, where he's only pushing against his body weight. Strength 8 is not bad when you only weigh 80 pounds. Doesn't make a lot of sense when, say, arm wrestling.

 

[Yaarel]

That is exactly why I said you are wrong. That is not how high jump works in D&D.

Ok, I just reread the rules in the PH. I understand how you are interpreting the wording. I still think you are wrong, but wording is genuinely ambiguous. It could benefit from errata clarification.

When it says, ‘you leap into the air a number of feet’, I interpret that to mean, a hurdle that is that number of feet in the air, whether the highjumper is in an upright position, a horizontal position, or whatever. The question is, did they avoid touching the threat that is that high.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Some individuals in the thread object. A less convincing argument is: they show me a picture of a muscular stout man who uses steroids, and then tell me this person cannot be agile. How do they know this person is not agile?

People who look musclebound normally do things on their free time like, play football, do boxing, go mountain climbing, waterskiing, play racketball, and so on. I am confident, these bodybuilders have an agility that is much higher than that of an average person. The fact that they can walk on their hands, pull up their own bodyweight, spring up ropes, and so on, already makes them far more agile than the average person. If there was a bodybuilder who was not generally athletic, that would seem really unusual.

Actually, not really.

A lot of the steroidal nightmares (such as the pictures Remathilis provided) that people seem to associate with high-strength characters are literally musclebound - in the original meaning of the word. They have developed specific muscles to the point where their movement is actually restricted. Hence Arnie's difficulties using the sword.
Another thing thing to bear in mind is that most of those bodybuilders depicted have built for "looking muscular" rather than pure strength. Hence the "triangle torso" of massive biceps and shoulders narrowing to tiny waist. They get this by specifically avoiding working the core body muscles, which are the ones used in general feats of strength rather than specialised weightlifting for example. Compare those pictures with the one ChrisCarlson showed of actual strongman competition winners - despite looking less muscular they would be stronger in D&D terms because they are a balanced musculature, able to perform general feats of strength.

Can they do an handstand? Possibly, although how long they stay balanced would be a matter of practise and Dexterity.

If we have to try to place real-life into D&D terms, I would expect any olympic- or world-level athlete to basically have Expertise in Athletics and/or equivalent skill.
Actobats and Gymnasts would likely have both high strength and Dex, expertise in both Athletics and Acrobatics, and probably proficiency in Performance as well.

 

[Yaarel]

For what it is worth, here is what a formal ‘standing highjump’ looks like in reallife competitions.

The world record (for men) is roughly about 6 feet.

So, this special back flip here to clear 6 feet horizontally, compares to the balance beam standing highjump clearing 4 feet while remaining in a fully upright position. Both demonstrate the highest possibilities of Strength.