D&D General Stretching Bounded Accuracy?

[Zardnaar]

So I 5.5 my players are hitting lvl 11 probably tomorrow. Assuming they defeat Banes avatar.

5E conceptually was to reduce number porn. 3.5 needed this. ACs however are still fairly low on CR 13+ monsters eg 18 or so.

If I was doing homebrew or 6E I would stretch it a bit.

Thoughts on the following options for proficiency bonus.

1. +1/3 levels. Lvl 1+2, lvl 4 +3, level 7 +4, lvl 10 +5, lvl 13+ 6, lvl 16+ 7, lvl 19 +8.

2. +1/2 levels. Lvl 1 +2, lvl 3 +3, lvl 5 +4, lvl 7 +5, lvl 9 +6, lvl 11+ 7, lvl 13 +8, lvl 15 +9, lvl 17 + 10, lvl 19 +11.

Personally I think I like option 1 option 2 is close to 4E and could top out + 16 base, +19 with +3 item. Option 2 woukd be goid for a 4E or proper 3.75 rebuild (SWSE+5E inspiratio).

ACs would also be stretched but that's another post. I would probably use 3 saves. All 3 scale or maybe full caster 1 save, half casters 2 saves, martial 3 saves.

Skills would probably be 5E ones.
From there I would diverge. I think you could use this basic engine to clone 3E, 4E or an OSR type game with a skill system.

I want something resembling 5E but your 6E coukd diverge from there based on personal preferences. More interested in what do you think of my basic engine for your personal game? I've used 4E and 5E in my homebrew but this is what im thinking now.

 

[Maxperson]

So I 5.5 my players are hitting lvl 11 probably tomorrow. Assuming they defeat Banes avatar.

5E conceptually was to reduce number porn. 3.5 needed this. ACs however are still fairly low on CR 13+ monsters eg 18 or so.

If I was doing homebrew or 6E I would stretch it a bit.

Thoughts on the following options for proficiency bonus.

1. +1/3 levels. Lvl 1+2, lvl 4 +3, level 7 +4, lvl 10 +5, lvl 13+ 6, lvl 16+ 7, lvl 19 +8.

2. +1/2 levels. Lvl 1 +2, lvl 3 +3, lvl 5 +4, lvl 7 +5, lvl 9 +6, lvl 11+ 7, lvl 13 +8, lvl 15 +9, lvl 17 + 10, lvl 19 +11.

Personally I think I like option 1 option 2 is close to 4E and could top out + 16 base, +19 with +3 item. Option 2 woukd be goid for a 4E or proper 3.75 rebuild (SWSE+5E inspiratio).

ACs would also be stretched but that's another post. I would probably use 3 saves. All 3 scale or maybe full caster 1 save, half casters 2 saves, martial 3 saves.

Skills would probably be 5E ones.
From there I would diverge. I think you could use this basic engine to clone 3E, 4E or an OSR type game with a skill system.

I want something resembling 5E but your 6E coukd diverge from there based on personal preferences. More interested in what do you think of my basic engine for your personal game? I've used 4E and 5E in my homebrew but this is what im thinking now.

Honestly, if I did it I'd go with number 2, but I'd start level 1 at +1 and finish at +10. Bonuses don't mean a whole heck of a lot and the first two levels go by lickity split anyway.

 

[Zardnaar]

Honestly, if I did it I'd go with number 2, but I'd start level 1 at +1 and finish at +10. Bonuses don't mean a whole heck of a lot and the first two levels go by lickity split anyway.

Well 5E has +2 and 4E you got the +2 or 3 by weapon.

 

[Minigiant]

The problem isn't the Bounded Accuracy. It was the Bounded DC.

If you Proficiency can go up by +4 and could be doubled and you Ability mod could go up be +5 but your DCs only go from 10 to 20 normally, you are going from +0 to +17 on one side and DC 10 to DC 20 from the other.

Moving from 17 spots on one side and 10 on the other leads to major gameplay shift over time.

 

[Zardnaar]

The problem isn't the Bounded Accuracy. It was the Bounded DC.

If you Proficiency can go up by +4 and could be doubled and you Ability mod could go up be +5 but your DCs only go from 10 to 20 normally, you are going from +0 to +17 on one side and DC 10 to DC 20 from the other.

Moving from 17 spots on one side and 10 on the other leads to major gameplay shift over time.

Referring to saves?

That's why im thinking all saves scale or the other idea.

 

[Minigiant]

Referring to saves?

That's why im thinking all saves scale or the other idea.

Saves

But 200% armor
A 10-20 range offers little to go and little challenge. Especially when everyone really stats at 13.

 

[ECMO3]

Personally I am not a fan of that. I think the current bounded accuracy values are pretty good, but if I was going to do it I would go the other way, lowering proficiency bonus.

I think abilities, magic and other options can reduce hits or reduce damage or both, but I like the idea that a 1st level Character can hit a Dragon.

 

[Zardnaar]

Personally I am not a fan of that. I think the current bounded accuracy values are pretty good, but if I was going to do it I would go the other way, lowering proficiency bonus.

I think abilities, magic and other options can reduce hits or reduce damage or both, but I like the idea that a 1st level Character can hit a Dragon.

Doesn't really matter if they can hit the dragon or not theyre still dead. 5E dragons are also weaksauce just buckets of HP, decent breath weapon. AC would be higher a couple of points option 1, maybe 5 points option 2. Iwould mix the current dragon design with some 3.5 options. Overhauling monsters would be a thing.

3.5 probably got HP about right IMHO for the most part (needs work). 3.0 glass cannons 4E+ to many HP (combined with low damage in 4E).

 

[NotAYakk]

In 5e, your proficiency on attacks goes from +2 to +6 (+4), and your bonus on attributes goes from +3 to +5 (+2).

So without gear, you gain +6 to hit (and similarly +6 to save DCs) over 20 levels.

Over the range of (say) 10 to 22 AC, calculate d(damage%)/dATK at each ATK level assuming static damage is half of your weapon damage and you crit on a 20.

At 13 AC, a level 20 PC has a 10% chance of missing.
At 23 AC, a level 1 PC has a 10% chance of hitting.

So in the range 13-23 AC, monsters the RNG doesn't completely dominate your character's weapon skill (ignoring magic weapons).

Similarly, spell DCs go from 13 up to 19 without magic items boosting them. A creature with +10 save has a 10% chance of failing a 13 DC, and a creature with +0 to to a save has a 10% chance of passing a DC 19 save; the RNG isn't dominated by the attribute.

So the range 13-23 AC and +0-+10 saves is "fair ball" against PCs without magic +X ATK/+X DC items.