D&D 5E Structuring 5E: Bring back Basic & Advanced?

[Ratskinner]

I think there's a problem with treating the "Core" of 5E as simply being the "basic" version of the game.<snippage>

The picture you paint is very much how it sounds like they are planning things, AFAICT. Although, to be sure, they are reserving the right to change their collective mind, later.

Personally, I do think there is a need for some sort of "super-simple" version of at least parts of the game. So, for instance, a theme is supposedly composed of a feat list, and perhaps some skills to choose from. I think it'd be nice for there to be "essential" themes that gave you a simpler mechanic that scaled with level. Players who are extremely casual or less mechanically minded could just take one of those and not worry about adjusting for new feats every other level (or whatever.) So far, we haven't heard anything like this. (Then again, maybe there are themes that have FeatName, Improved FeatName, and Master FeatName as their feat list, which would be functionally equivalent.)

All I really know right now is that May 24th is much farther away than it was just a few days ago.

 

[The Shadow]

I would expect that the basic version of the game would have just Race and Class, and would look a lot like early DnD. Then, Themes and Backgrounds would be modules. But the problem is that a lot of the features of traditional DnD classes are the kinds of things I think should end up in Themes and Backgrounds. For example, I think the Undead-related stuff that Clerics get should be in a Theme, while the scholarly nature of the Wizard should be part of a Background. But to do that, it basically means the Core Cleric wouldn't have Turn Undead, which is a problem for those treating Core alone as the basic game, because it's missing a big part of traditional DnD.

No, see, we already know it's not going to work like this.

The core cleric (to use your example) will have a default background and theme baked in. They will be invisible to the core player because the core cleric simply has a list of abilities, without reference to where they come from.

Then in the background and theme modules, it will be made clear that the core cleric is really Cleric class, Priest background, and Sun Domain theme (or whatever). There you'll find out how to swap those out for other stuff, and customize your cleric to your heart's content.

So the core cleric will indeed be able to turn undead. And if you activate the theme module, he'll probably be able to turn fire elementals instead if you want.

EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure that background will be baked in - supposedly the core game will be playable entirely without skills. But it has been explicitly stated that the theme will be baked in - and the feats within it will be viewed in core as simply class abilities.

 

[GX.Sigma]

No, see, we already know it's not going to work like this.

The core cleric (to use your example) will have a default background and theme baked in. They will be invisible to the core player because the core cleric simply has a list of abilities, without reference to where they come from.

No, it won't work like either of those. They have said (multiple times) that each class will have a suggested theme and background, which is the default, but you can also choose a different one, or make one up, or choose not to use them at all.

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Before I get any further, we fully expect players to customize by either swapping out a skill or feat from a background or theme, or by working with their Dungeon Master to create altogether new backgrounds and themes (even if working with the DM means “Do whatever you want!” ).

Your class will suggest a theme, but we expect you to choose whatever theme you like. The suggested theme for a fighter might be Slayer, while the suggested theme for a wizard might be Mystic. As a fighter, I can swap out Slayer for Guardian so I can do a better job protecting my allies. As a wizard, I can swap out Mystic for Lurker, and be all sneaky and stuff. Again, the theme works to help refine your choices, not constrict them.

I can see backgrounds used in several different ways:
DM 1: We’re not using backgrounds at all. Just ignore this stuff.
DM 2: Use the background suggested by your class.
DM 3: Choose a background for your character. It can be the one suggested for your class or a different one.
DM 4: Choose a background for your character. You can trade out one skill for a different one.
DM 5: Come up with your own background by choosing up to four skills.

Background and theme are not modules, they are a core part of the game. "Not using backgrounds and themes" is an alternative.

 

[Zireael]

I see "Basic & Advanced" happening in D&D Next... the core is Basic and the additional modules are Advanced. It's just a matter of names.

 

[trancejeremy]

The thing is, I think there needs to be a simpler version of the game.

Not just a version where you have all your character building options pre-picked. But a version where those options (and the rules they bring to the game) don't exist.

Something close to Basic Fantasy

Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game

Presumably somewhat more complex, but not too much.

It needs to aim not only at people who currently play D&D or have in the past, but people who haven't but might want to.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

So long as Basic & Advanced are the same game, rather than two different games with a high level of similarity ...

I'm more in favor of a good introductory product, though, and would prefer to just label the whole thing D&D.

 

[The Little Raven]

I think rating optional modules as either Basic or Advanced is a good nod to the historical split, but without splitting the game into two versions commercially. Basic modules could be characterized by simplicity of use, lighter mechanics, and a higher likelihood to simply build off mechanics in the core. Advanced modules would have a higher level of complexity, a bit more mechanical rigor, and a higher likelihood to introduce new stats/scores/subsystems.

You could even have a couple modules for the same thing, but with a Basic and Advanced version. For instance, the Basic version would be a very simplified system primarily based on paying in money and time, possibly with certain ability score/class/theme/background requirements for different types of items. The Advanced version could involve dice rolls at various stages to determine the quality/time lost/money spent, maybe even with a modular item-building system.