"Stuck" playing 4e (i.e. unwilling converts)

[Imaro]

Something to keep in mind is just because some fans of (insert edition here) say A and some say B, it doesn't mean that any particular fan of (insert edition here) believes both A and B. Two different people can criticize the same thing for completely different (even opposite) reasons. It's a fallacy to accuse people of inconsistency because their arguments contradict those of other people who happen to like the same edition.

Hey Ifni, that's a good point... I guess I assume if you're on this board you're reading through alot of these posts and absorbing alot of what's talked about... but that could definitley be an assumption I shouldn't make. So again, good point.

You don't understand because... because 4e fans are a hive mind, right? Its the same reason I get to blame you for everything Derren's ever said on this forum, right?

Where did I say or make that claim...

A more serious response that probably isn't deserved- they're totally different things.

Then please by all means... stay quiet, and let the poster I responded to answer my question and explain what he meant.

Feature creep deals with things like the finicky-ness of the rules. Like if one edition of a game has disarm and trip, and the next edition has disarm, trip, sunder, and new rules that specify exactly who can be tripped and how different modifiers should be applied based on the trippee's form of locomotion, whether it be bipedal, quadripedal, or serpentine.

So are you saying that over the lifetime of a game these types of options don't increase? Because in 3.5 they did, and if that's true... then I have to ask... what was your point in posting this definition, as far as it is related to my statement?

Options-across-lifespan has to do with whether its fair to complain that 3e had Shadowcasters and 4e doesn't. And the answer to that is yes and no- if playing a Shadowcaster is what makes you happy, and making a fake Shadowcaster out of a 4e wizard isn't enough for you, then 4e obviously doesn't have what you want. But that doesn't necessarily mean that 4e or WOTC are blameworthy for not having a relatively late-era esoteric option available at initial release. Its possible to both want something (like I want a shadowcaster) and to acknowledge that its logical that you haven't been given it.

Uhm...okay you make a point that they are different types of options...( at least I guess that's your point)... but that has no bearing on whether or not the options increase over the lifespan of a game or not. So is it that feature creep can in fact grow over the lifespan of a game and thus it is options-across-lifespan... or are you trying to argue this never happens and thus it is totally different from options-across-lifespan?

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've just read the last few pages of this thread, and I think its done now.

There has been some interesting discussion along the way, but too much edition warring and people talking at one another rather than with one another.

Clunk.