D&D General Stuff 5E Did Right

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I've never understood the idea of level 1-2 being "training levels" In my 10 years of 5e and many campaigns played to high levels, nearly 50% of all character deaths have happened at level 1 or 2. Low levels is really where you need to bring your A-game if you want to survive, there is a lot less margin for error than at higher levels.

I suppose "sink or swim" is a valid approach to training, even if it's a bit brutal.

 

[Xeviat]

My favorite thing about 5E was baking Subclasses (and subraces/lineages/ancestries into the races/specieses). Class to Subclass allows for Classes to stay broad themes while subclasses holds the specializations. It made it so we could avoid the class bloat that 3E and 4E got, and allows for more material to be added that gets continued support.

 

[Distracted DM]

Think I would personally prefer stretching +6 over 20 levels to +10 a'la 4E but use B/X stat array (18's capped at +3).

I'd love max 18 stats with +3's... I think the current stat bonuses break bend bounded accuracy with how quickly and easily PCs get to 20/+5, especially considering how often monsters are stuck with 14s and 15s in their primary stats. Yes, I can raise them artificially but I run online mostly nowadays and I often grab monsters off the rack without considering how poorly they'll stack up against a level 4-5 hero's stats

What's really nice is that the chassis is simple, but easily modified. A5E is a great example of how you can add more complicated subsystems into 5E.

Yeah that's a big plus for 5e. Of course you can say that other editions had lots of hacks etc as well, but 5e does feel like it's inherently moddable without TOO much fuss.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

I've never understood the idea of level 1-2 being "training levels"

They are training levels in the sense that your character only has a couple things they can do in combat, so for someone who is completely new to learning the rules of DnD, these levels are much easier for learning the base rules of the game

You are definitely right though that these levels are the most dangerous due to having low HP.

 

[Horwath]

I've never understood the idea of level 1-2 being "training levels" In my 10 years of 5e and many campaigns played to high levels, nearly 50% of all character deaths have happened at level 1 or 2. Low levels is really where you need to bring your A-game if you want to survive, there is a lot less margin for error than at higher levels.

I suppose "sink or swim" is a valid approach to training, even if it's a bit brutal.

it's training wheel as your characters have very few options to pick from and what to do from round to round.
when you have 3 spells vs 12 spells prepared, that is training.

and it's good for new players.
for not so new it's either 3rd or 6th level for starters.

 

[guachi]

My addition: I've run 5e mostly with old, published adventures from BECMI and 1e. The exception being LMOP. I've found, with some easy (but profound) changes it works exceptionally well. I think I get better BECMI/1e adventures than I ever could have running them with the original rules.

Updating the encounters takes a few passes and iterations but, for me at least, the added time means I know the encounters inside and out. The longer prep makes an easier time at the table.

I'd rate 5e the best system of all of them. I certainly have better memories of BECMI and 2e games back in grade school through college. But from a system standpoint 5e is the best. Also, I love the SRD and the ease of using 3pp with 5e.

 

[Horwath]

Well it's easy to focus on the negatives of WotC bring a terrible company. Never the less I think they did a few things very well that contributed to the success of 5E blowing up. Some of this is in concept even if the execution was off here and there.

agree with the most of it;

1. Advantage and disadvantage mechanic. Personally I was over the number bloat of 3E, 4E and Pathfinder. Hell throw in Star Wars Saga Edition. Mathematics isn't fun rolling dice is. Very newbie/DM friendly.

yes, but some granularity would also be nice, new exhaustion rules could be nice addition.

2. Level 1 and 2 being the training levels. Very noticeable running the game for newer players vs old salts. Sure we grumble about it but ENworlds not particularly representative or newbies.

100%, anyone else can start at 3rd or 6th level. or even higher.

3. Opt in complexity. Yes the champion might not be to exciting and we probably love our feats. A feats probably better than an ASI but ASI is still good in your prime stat early on. The champion might not be for you play something else.

IMHO, barbarian should have been simplest warrior class.
just two abilities Rage and move.
fighter should have been base class with battlemaster features.

same with sorcerer/wizard.
give sorcerer few spells and +1 per die for damage spells. You only have a hammer but it hits hard.

4. Bounded accuracy. Didn't work as intended but smaller numbers are good. Think I would personally prefer stretching +6 over 20 levels to +10 a'la 4E but use B/X stat array (18's capped at +3).

Disagree, I would even cap scores at 18(+4). Outside of magic items and high level spells, that is it. Raise secondary or take more feats.

5. The round structure. Very similar to 4E but you cant swap a move action into bonus (minor) action. This is good it's less complicated and you can dodge various exploits. You could use it to clone any previous edition tweaking it as required eg minor action becomes a bonus action and you can swap a move action.

I really miss giving up my move for extra Bonus action

6. Monster design. They kinda screwed up the monster design part but large using a d10 HD, huge d12, small d6 is quite good. One could also tweak the 5E monsters to redo older editions. Eg a B/X ogre being upgraded to 1d10 vs d8 HD is a buff that's not going to wreck the game. You could also use older edition design concepts eg 4E ones or adding old school energy drains and SR if you desired.

this should not matter as long as CR system works, but it does not.

7. Lower complexity in general. Got a laugh at my newbie friendly beginners game. I handed a 13 year old player 900 pages of the core rules and told him to make a character in 15 minutes. Instead I supplied each player with a 2 page cheat cheat summarizing the 5E round structure and what to do.

that you can make with every edition. maybe little more work with 4E

8. Excellent Starter Sets. Both the starter sets and essentials are very good for onboarding newer players. They all have their flaws. A great one woukd have LMoP (S toer adventure. B tier product)with a tweaked opening encounter, the bells and whistles of the essentials box and pre constructed characters from DoSI.

this should be every games goal.

 

[Zardnaar]

My addition: I've run 5e mostly with old, published adventures from BECMI and 1e. The exception being LMOP. I've found, with some easy (but profound) changes it works exceptionally well. I think I get better BECMI/1e adventures than I ever could have running them with the original rules.

Updating the encounters takes a few passes and iterations but, for me at least, the added time means I know the encounters inside and out. The longer prep makes an easier time at the table.

I'd rate 5e the best system of all of them. I certainly have better memories of BECMI and 2e games back in grade school through college. But from a system standpoint 5e is the best. Also, I love the SRD and the ease of using 3pp with 5e.

I've done that as well.

But I've also run BECMI adventures in C&C printing out monsters from the BECMI Rules Cyclopedia. I'm running the 5E and C&C side by side.

5E isn't the easiest on to run or prep for. Not nostalgia either one fame was Thursday the 5E one Sunday.

 

[GrimCo]

No trap options. This is big one. It's very hard to unintentionally create bad characters. While not all classes and subclasses are created equal, all are valid choices and at very least, decent.

Removal of feat trees and feat tax. Every feat stands on it's own, no more bad feats you need to take to get to one good feat you really want.

Simplified spell caster multi classing when it comes to calculating number of slots and all classes sharing same slots. Cantrips scaling with character level, not with caster level. It helps multiclass characters non full casters to keep their damage cantrips viable in upper tiers.

Overall, i think 5e did solid work of streamlining things.

 

[Vicar In A Tutu]

Almost all the points you mentioned as positives are best for new players and those who are looking for simplicity (often also new players). As a not-new player who appreciates the value of complexity (I love a good subsystem), I have to say your list is pretty subjective from my point of view.

I’ve been a player and DM since 1993. Now I’m a dad with a demanding job and a big house. I want D&D to be simple and easy to play. My friends are in the same situation as me. We like 5E because it’s easier to play than 3E and 4E.