Stunlock: A DM's Worst Nightmare

[Neonchameleon]

Hmm... would it work for stun to only take the standard action from Solos? Leaving them their move and minor?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Neonchameleon!

Hmm... would it work for stun to only take the standard action from Solos? Leaving them their move and minor?

That doesn't work. Tequila Sunrise posted earlier that even just by nerfing the standard actions a solo monster is basically rendered impotent.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Jhaelen!

Yeah, I had read about that idea on Mr. Mearl's Blog for 5e. I don't particularly like it. I prefer if there's at least a chance to affect a solo early in the encounter (see below). I could also imagine an ability to delay conditions, though this would have the disadvantage of having to track them all.

I think the problem with the 5E approach could be remembering the condition hit point limits of each different condition/effect.

So I think my solution here (bloodied for elite and 25% for solo's) is the most elegant possible.

Arguably you could also apply that to PCs (treating them as Elite) and then take off the kid gloves with regards Stunning, Petrification and Death.

This, however, is really cool! I think this could work in tandem with the above.

Glad you like it.

This is also an extension of a 5e idea, right?

No this is something I have been working on for over a year in my Vampire Bestiary book (potentially out within less than a week - fingers crossed).

I seem to recall something about 'turn undead' affecting monsters in different ways, as described in their entry. I immediately thought, this would be cool for _every_ kind of monster and not just to determine the effect of 'turn undead'.

Back in the eighties when I designed my own rpg I had plenty of 'puzzle' monsters that could only be defeated by a particular course of action. So, I really love this idea!

In my book I devote a few pages to solo monster design, three act encounter structure (for bosses) and how to incorporate weak spots (with some examples in the book).

 

[Ryujin]

Some of my favourite solos have a 3-standards-per-round build. The Behir is a good example that rather than getting a normal initiative, gets a standard action on 30/20/10. With that setup you can have the conditions effect it on its next action, but have the following actions be unaffected. The Behir fight was one of the most interesting, for the group I DM, in Revenge of the Giants because I played it that way.

 

[Arctic Wolf]

Some of my favourite solos have a 3-standards-per-round build. The Behir is a good example that rather than getting a normal initiative, gets a standard action on 30/20/10. With that setup you can have the conditions effect it on its next action, but have the following actions be unaffected. The Behir fight was one of the most interesting, for the group I DM, in Revenge of the Giants because I played it that way.

Hmm that is an interesting way of doing it and I have never thought of that. Does that Behir say that specifically? Because I will need to check it out now

 

[Ryujin]

Hmm that is an interesting way of doing it and I have never thought of that. Does that Behir say that specifically? Because I will need to check it out now

Yup, sure does. The one in Revenge is the "Behir Young Adult", but the standard Behir from MM2 acts the same way. The big boss creature in the same module used the same mechanic.

*EDIT* It doesn't actually specify that the effects only last until it's next turn but, even without that, it gets a save at the end of each turn by RAW.

 

[keterys]

The Behir is a really good example where the game gets save ends (you're lucky if it lasts more than 1/3 of a round) and end of PC's next turn (lasts for all 3 of the Behir's turns) wrong.

 

[Ryujin]

The Behir is a really good example where the game gets save ends (you're lucky if it lasts more than 1/3 of a round) and end of PC's next turn (lasts for all 3 of the Behir's turns) wrong.

Most "until the end of the player's next turn" effects should probably be "until the end of the creature's next turn."

When you add in a save vs. effects that don't normally give a save, perhaps with a hit point penalty, it all comes out in the wash.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Hey Neonchameleon!

That doesn't work. Tequila Sunrise posted earlier that even just by nerfing the standard actions a solo monster is basically rendered impotent.

Depends on the solo. I was thinking of the Purple Worm when I posted - which gets a lot of powerful minor attack options. On the other hand dragons are all about their standard actions. And Beholders don't care much as long as they can take Opportunity Actions (and aren't trapped in a Defender Aura).

And "Depends on the Solo" is a really bad plan for game changing.

The Behir is a really good example where the game gets save ends (you're lucky if it lasts more than 1/3 of a round) and end of PC's next turn (lasts for all 3 of the Behir's turns) wrong.

Definitely. Action Recovery would be a good idea.