stupid warning labels and disclaimers...

[werk]

Yeah, some woman made millions when she spilled a cup of superhot McDonalds coffee on herself and suffered 3rd degree burns. Maybe if McDonald's didn't serve their coffee hotter than lava, she wouldn't be a millionaire due to her own clumsiness. I think her winning claim was based not on the fact that the coffee she spilled on herself was hot, but on the fact that it was so blistering hot that she had to go to the hospital and get burn treatment. Were her mouth and tongue supposed to be supernaturally immune to burning?

I truly hate frivolous lawsuits, but I also hate superhot coffee.

Yeah, that's the story you've been told, but a lot of these stories are exaggerated urban myth.

In truth, her ruling was overturned on appeal and she died deep in debt for lawyers' fees.

Don't believe the hype.

 

[Umbran]

In truth, her ruling was overturned on appeal and she died deep in debt for lawyers' fees.

Wikipedia disagrees with you. They (and several other sources) report that both sides did appeal, but eventually settled out of court for an undisclosed amount under $600K.

I've not found a reliable citation on her financial status after that settlement, or even one stating she died (though, since she was in her 80s at the time of the settlement, I'd not be surprised).

 

[werk]

The trial court subsequently reduced the punitive award to $480,000 -- or three times compensatory damages -- even though the judge called McDonalds' conduct reckless, callous and willful.

No one will ever know the final ending to this case.

The parties eventually entered into a secret settlement which has never been revealed to the public, despite the fact that this was a public case, litigated in public and subjected to extensive media reporting. Such secret settlements, after public trials, should not be condoned. Many courts in California have adopted policies against enforcement of secret settlements, which is a positive development for consumers and the public.

I'm unable to find it now, but the story went that she was awaiting appeal at the time of her death and her estate settled to cover her lawyer's fees and put the whole mess to bed. Several sources site this as less than $600,000.

I first started looking into this case after I received the 'Stella Awards' spam email http://www.snopes.com/legal/lawsuits.asp so it's been a long while.

I still don't understand how you could get third degree burns from a hot liquid,

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I still don't understand how you could get third degree burns from a hot liquid,

Because the coffee that spilled on her was more than 140 degrees. It's been a long time since I heard anything about this. But from what I remember they were pushing the temperature of the coffee maker way up because they'd put the pots up front where they were quicker to get to for the employees filling orders and wanted it to stay hot longer.

Which also meant it was wayyy to hot to drink right out of the coffee maker, which is exactly what she got.

EDIT: What I really love are the disclaimers on firearms sold here in the U.S. Anyone so stupid they need the disclaimer to tell them a firearm is dangerous is far too stupid to be allowed to survive and pollute the gene pool.

 

[werk]

Because the coffee that spilled on her was more than 140 degrees. It's been a long time since I heard anything about this. But from what I remember they were pushing the temperature of the coffee maker way up because they'd put the pots up front where they were quicker to get to for the employees filling orders and wanted it to stay hot longer.

Which also meant it was way too hot to drink right out of the coffee maker, which is exactly what she got.

Yeah, but the degrees are the layers of penetration...
first - epidermis
second - dermis
third - hypodermis
fourth - muscle
fifth - bone

So the heat from that rapidly cooling liquid conducted through vascular (convective heat dissipating) layers and was still hot enough to burn the underlying fat?

But I guess she was super old, so her skin would be very thin probably with poor circulation...

 

[Umbran]

I still don't understand how you could get third degree burns from a hot liquid,

Again, to quote Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_degree_burn#Classification

Having a hard time thinking of bad burns from a liquid? Imagine the liquid is molten iron. Is it difficult to imagine that burning you badly? The fact that it is a liquid, in and of itself, isn't the real issue. The question is whether water specifically, could cause such bad burning.

And water, as we all know, can be bad enough to "burn" all the flesh off the bones of a chicken - that's how we make soup, after all. Maybe that helps to it in the proper perspective? When you cook, you're causing heat damage to the flesh, and that's what "burn" means in this case. And we cook with hot water all the time.

 

[kenobi65]

Yeah, but the degrees are the layers of penetration...
first - epidermis
second - dermis
third - hypodermis
fourth - muscle
fifth - bone

I've never heard of a "fourth" or "fifth" degree burn. When you hear news stories about people with severe burn damage, it's always "third-degree burns over XX% of their body".

Then again, I work in advertising, and got my First Aid merit badge in 1978. What do I know?

Edit: just read Umbran's link to Wikipedia. Shows how uneducated on the topic I am..

 

[werk]

The question is whether water specifically, could cause such bad burning.

I don't know, liquid iron, as a molten solid, is going to have to give up a lot of calories to undergo phase transfer at what, 800 degrees?

I don't have a problem with third degree burns, it's just...would spilled water be hot enough, retain the heat long enough, and sit in a puddle long enough to damage the underlying fat cells?

Maybe she tried to catch the coffee in her lap so she could pour it back in the cup and drink it later?

I'm still going to attribute the severity to her age.




We have a new EHS (environment health and safety) manager at work and the first thing she did was put big, red, 'KEEP RIGHT--->>" signs on all the double doors...the kind that only have handles on the right side.

 

[Slife]

The water was hot enough to cause third degree burns in under five seconds.

 

[Umbran]

I don't know, liquid iron, as a molten solid, is going to have to give up a lot of calories to undergo phase transfer at what, 800 degrees?

"Molten solid" is not a differentiator here. Everything has a solid form under the right conditions, so every liquid is the molten form of something - water is merely the molten form of the solid known as ice.

I don't have a problem with third degree burns, it's just...would spilled water be hot enough, retain the heat long enough, and sit in a puddle long enough to damage the underlying fat cells?

Water has a higher specific heat capacity than iron. Water's ability to carry and deliver heat really isn't in question - we cook with it precisely because it has this ability. Ask the next hard boiled egg you eat how good water is at its job.

I am explicitly not telling you to do this, but merely think about it: Imagine a pot of water, boiling. Turn off the heat, and wait for the bubbles to stop rising. Would you be dumb enough to stick your hand in there and hold it there for three seconds? Why not?

As for pooling - given that most elderly women don't go naked to stop by MickyD's, I'm going to assume she was wearing clothing. Cloth has this tendency of soaking up water - and then it would have been held next to her skin, so she couldn't get away from it if she tried.