Stupid Wildshape Trick

[Gwydion The Quick]

Another wild shape trick to bring down fliying monsters:

* Turn into a bird
* Fly up to the flying monster
* Wild Shape into a rhino ( 6000 pounds) slam the monster to the ground. Melee fighters in the group will be able to strike it normally.

But, I do not think it will be an acceptable druid roleplaying.

 

[sithramir]

You would still take the fall damage also. So you'd die to deal that damage. Your damage reduction from earth elemental wouldn't do when you're taking the equivalent of 100d6. But it is doable if you want to kill off that character. He won't get the exp since he's dead though so that kind of sucks.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

You would still take the fall damage also. So you'd die to deal that damage. Your damage reduction from earth elemental wouldn't do when you're taking the equivalent of 100d6. But it is doable if you want to kill off that character. He won't get the exp since he's dead though so that kind of sucks.

He would actually get XP since he participated in the battle. It's in the rules somewhere (they even say that these xp should be awarded after the penatly from being raised is applied).

 

[Moonglum]

It's in the rules somewhere (they even say that these xp should be awarded after the penatly from being raised is applied).

DMG 3.5 page 41 - Left side - Under "Death and Experience Points"

 

[Darkness]

You would still take the fall damage also. So you'd die to deal that damage. Your damage reduction from earth elemental wouldn't do when you're taking the equivalent of 100d6.

Now, how to survive that...?

100d6 equals around 350 points of damage.

First, get a friend shield ring and get someone who can take 175 points and survive to wear it (or have a very friendly, very very tough cleric cast shield other).

The example assumed a level 18 Druid. Let's say he has Con 14 (18 buffed).
Average hp for such a druid: HD 18d8+72, hp 156. (i.e., 4.5/HD and 8 for the first HD.)
Close...

A 10th- or higher-level cleric casting aid gives you 1d8+10 temporary hp, or 14 on the average.
That's 170 hp and DR 10 from being a Huge earth elemental. Thus, taking 190 damage would kill you. On the average, you'll take 175 and survive (barely).
So to kill you, 380 or more has to be rolled on the 100d6 ('cause you only take half, with the other half going to the other guy - who needs to be either very tough, immune to death of this kind, or expendable).
So your odds aren't too bad.

'course, I didn't even try hard. Trust me, increasing the druid's odds for survival even further is quite doable; an 18th-level druid and his friends can do some impressive buffing.

(Side note: 'course, there's the massive damage save. But an 18th-level Druid has a +11 base Fortitude save and gains +4 from the aforementioned 18 Con. And you probably have some resistance bonuses as well. With the DC being only 15, you can't fail unless you roll a 1.)


Some computer-generated 100d6 rolls to test how rare 380+ damage is...
331,361,342,330,371,338,322,340,299,355,332,324,340,333,356,319,338,354,372,368,367,354,380,345,356,375,358,361,363,354,352,354,327,346,376,329,348,358,357,351,344,344,349,329,324,358,324,358,365,333,355,351,359,353,350,364,364,375,348,362,343,337,346,346,359,341,357,323,361,370,354,346,316,331,343,355,324,334,361,334,352,315,372,374,327,326,331,348,346,346,326,367,343,354,352,332,370,367,355,367,334,332,391,350,346,340,340,342,340,356,358,366,324,334,364,353,346,350,337,350,384,354,332,371,335,340,352,385,368,360,328,360,358,331,357,365,343,367,323,330,348,343,363,369,338,359,342,363,349,335,335,303,350,348,363,368,317,355,347,338,363,332,356,377,345,323,338,349,350,360,338,359,360,348,370,355,337,358,358,344,355,371,371,361,355,352,324,363,344,399,348,345,341,327,366,385,353,400,326,339,312,297,355,359,375,348,365,352,359,335,357,359,343,329,319,347,342,377,346,349,336,340,336,355,344,334,355,374,345,334,329,340,332,335,357,349,357,382,344,351,355,326,360,357,363,328,353,324,353,352,388,362,342,362,352

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

I don't think expanding in the gizzard/gullet/whatever is a stupid trick at all. It's a fun, dramatic tactic that you can easily see being used in a movie. I don't think players should be penalized for not fitting perfectly into the rules--they're playing tabletop D&D with a human DM, not a CRPG. The point of a human DM is to be flexible. I think we just need to figure out a way of adjudicating this that is fair and balanced.

Some of the ideas posted here are, I think, really spot on. For instance:

. If a meal gets too big, the swallower may regurgitate it back up.
. If someone managed to do damage from the inside, they may well take damage themselves.
. The wildshaper might do damage and exit as if he had cut his way out.
. A Fort save might be a way of handling this.
. An opposed Str check is another possibility.

To those I'd just like to add that just because someone who gets bigger doesn't take damage from normal confines (e.g. dungeon walls) doesn't mean that someone doesn't take damage from something expanding from within. And just as an expander has a chance to burst the confines, it seems realistic that someone expanding from the inside can do some damage to a creature, which tends to yield a bit more easily than solid stone walls! Likewise, if an expander has the potential to damage its confines, it may be susceptible to damage from the ordeal, too.

So how about this, in broad strokes (numbers themselves would require more thought)?

. First, the swallower may make a Reflex save to regurgitate the wildshaper before he gets too big (it can try and keep its meal down if it wants to and just voluntarily fail the save).

. If the wildshaper is still in there, now BOTH the swallower and the wildshaper make Fort saves. The DC of the save is based, at least in part, on the difference in size between the swallower and wildshape chosen. Whoever fails a save takes damage, again based in part of the size difference. Note that neither or both can take damage in this scenario.

. If the swallower takes enough damage to kill it (not beyond reason if it has already been damaged, say from the outside), it bursts in a dramatic explosion!

. If the swallower takes an amount of damage greater than or equal to what's normally required to cut a way out, but is not killed, the wildshaper is violently ejected by the path of least resistance (e.g. projectile vomited).

. If the swallower takes less damage than needed to normally cut a way out, the wildshaper immediately reverts back to normal size. If he is still alive and has more wildshapes for the day, he can try again next round.

. If the wildshaper is killed by the damage from expanding, he of course reverts back to normal form, but this occurs along with other events given damage (if any) to the swallower. For instance, someone might manage to burst the swallower open but get killed in the process, reverting to normal shape as soon as he's freed.

 

[sithramir]

He would actually get XP since he participated in the battle. It's in the rules somewhere (they even say that these xp should be awarded after the penatly from being raised is applied).

Who said he was being raised? I said he got not exp because he was dead and thats true.


And the shield other thing is ALMOST doable. Course that cleric has to have 2 rings that are identicle and the druid has to be wearing it. I wouldn't allow the ring to make it through wildshape as the ring in the components is not a magical ring and thus cannot resize. So the spell isn't really doable.

 

[Darkness]

And the shield other thing is ALMOST doable. Course that cleric has to have 2 rings that are identicle and the druid has to be wearing it. I wouldn't allow the ring to make it through wildshape as the ring in the components is not a magical ring and thus cannot resize. So the spell isn't really doable.

*nods* I thought about that, too. Which lead me to suggest the friend shield ring before even mentioning the possibility of using the spell.

It's quite doable.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Who said he was being raised? I said he got not exp because he was dead and thats true.

He's still entitled to the XP. Even if they won't help him...

 

[Zogg]

I thought I read somewhere (on this forum) that falling damage was capped at 20d6?

Also, if the druid casts meld into stone before he falls, wouldn't he be able to avoid damage (or do those spells go away after he shape-changes?) by "melding" into the earth.

Yet again, if he impacts the tarrasque and never specifically hit the earth I guess it wouldn't work - but I'd expect him to take less damage since his fall was broken by the creature. Yes?

So many things to think about here.....