D&D General Styles of D&D Play

[Hussar]

People sometimes claim that Dungeons & Dragons only supports a narrow range of play styles, but that is not my experience. I've seen the D&D rules used to support a variety of games, and as a DM, you should comprehend this versatility and use it to your advantage.

This is the first line from the OP. That D&D supports a broad range of playstyles. That was the point I was disagreeing with.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I guess we simply disagree on the definition of "decently to well".

And, just as importantly, you and I disagree with Max (and others) on the definition of "with minimal effort."

 

[Bedrockgames]

Nobody said that the fear was right. Just that that's what the fear was. The idea that some 3pp was going to come along and make the "killer app" wasn't even a blip on the radar.

I think the fear was D&D was “under monetized”

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Well, I cannot really respond to your post. You are talking about your specific table - you are choosing not to use the mechanics in the book. Which is a perfectly fair choice. After all, I would presume you are doing milestone leveling. Again, a perfectly reasonable choice and one I've also done. But, that doesn't change the fact that the system is there in the books.

This was the post I was talking about (that you didn't respond too):

I updated my previous post, but:

freeform =/= no support.

Just because you can do it freeform doesn't mean you have to do that way. They are not mutually exclusive. You can have both. As I mentioned we ran 4e combat freeform for an adventure. Does that mean 4e didn't support combat?

OTOH, I do not have the choice if I want to run a campaign that doesn't free form most social interactions. There are simply no mechanics present that I can choose to ignore/change. That's why it's mostly free form.

Does that make sense?

No it doesn't make sense. because I have pointed our rules in the book that you can use. If you don't use them, that is your choice.

Listen. this argument has just gotten silly. It boils down to you not believing the provided rules qualify as "support." That is a personal opinion and you are welcome to it, just as others are welcome to a different one. It can be true that what is "support" for some is not enough to be "support" for you. Not everyone needs the same amount of support.

 

[Hussar]

It boils down to you not believing the provided rules qualify as "support."

Fair enough. I do not believe that a couple of paragraphs of vague, hand wavey material with virtually no actual substance counts as "support". But, then again, you are correct. There IS support. It's anemic and mostly consists of hand wavium, but, it is there. So, yes, you are 100% correct, support exists.

 

[Oofta]

I didn't say it as all luck.

I said it was Dumb Luck. Meaning WOTC didn't plan for 5e to work so well.

The plan was to sell the 3 core books to random sets of curious people and make the game simple enough it doesn't scare them away in the first 1 or 2 campaigns that they buy a setting book and an adventure before they drop D&D.

WOTC didn't plan to sit there and be primed from when D&D becomes mainstream and technology advanced to ease play and learning.

THAT is why WOTC freaked out and went all greedy. They realized they were halfway making an effort and letting 3rd parties make tons of money that they could make megatons on if they made those products.

Hasbro realized they made all this money only seriously supporting 2 of the 10 playstyles and let other companies make money off the other 8 they ignored. That's why they wanted a lockdown and a percentage.

Or ... if it ain't broke don't fix it. Why would they add major subsystems since the game is selling so far beyond expectations? Doesn't seem like anything people are demanding.

 

[Oofta]

All the non gamers. All the younger people.


Few people, even gamers, even know any other RPGs even exist.

That's silly. Of course they know other RPGs exist. They may not know what they are but they could easily find alternatives in about 5 seconds. They may just decide that D&D does what they want and they're having fun playing. Doesn't mean other games couldn't be as or more popular if they had a big push, but people aren't that naive to believe only 1 RPG exists.

And D&D has huge legacy name recognition. And WotC has a huge advertising budget.

<link here>

That time would be.....right now. A simple enough search and you could be able to find a person posting something like "wow, I loved BG3, jow do I get into this D&D game for real?" And it happens a LOT in real life.

I did say BG3 was the latest Gateway Path.

I did not mean to say that there are no zombie 5E gamers that Must and Forever Only play 5E. Huge numbers of 5E players refuse to try anything else. Even when they describe that they want a specific type of game, and I say "well, this made was MADE for exactly that, lets play it" and they will be quick to snap "I must only play 5E D&D".

I "refuse" to play other games because I like D&D and I get out of it what I want. I've done one-shots here and there, discussed other games, read up on others. But other than PF just before 5E was starting to playtest nothing else ever brought anything to the table to make me change.

I really don't understand why people who don't like D&D come to a D&D just in order to talk about how lame the game is.

 

[Hussar]

I really don't understand why people who don't like D&D come to a D&D just in order to talk about how lame the game is.

Now this? This I agree with. I mean, sure, I might disagree that there's no need to add in some optional material and that it wouldn't improve the game to have optional sub-systems that support other styles of play better than the existing systems, but, at the end of the day, I'm still playing D&D twice a week in two different groups. And that's not likely to end any time soon.

I just wonder how people who keep telling me about all these fantastic systems that support all these different styles of play are going to feel when the new DMG comes out later this year and it's full of systems like the Bastion system which gamify broad swaths of the game that was formerly left largely free-form.

Then again, I could be wrong and the new DMG won't be filled with all sorts of new systems. I have a sneaking suspicion that all these folks who keep talking about how 2014 has all the support anyone could want are going to be rather disappointed to learn that the writers of D&D don't agree and are about to give us a big, thick, juicy book of all sorts of mechanics.

It's going to be an interesting year.

 

[Oofta]

Now this? This I agree with. I mean, sure, I might disagree that there's no need to add in some optional material and that it wouldn't improve the game to have optional sub-systems that support other styles of play better than the existing systems, but, at the end of the day, I'm still playing D&D twice a week in two different groups. And that's not likely to end any time soon.

I just wonder how people who keep telling me about all these fantastic systems that support all these different styles of play are going to feel when the new DMG comes out later this year and it's full of systems like the Bastion system which gamify broad swaths of the game that was formerly left largely free-form.

Then again, I could be wrong and the new DMG won't be filled with all sorts of new systems. I have a sneaking suspicion that all these folks who keep talking about how 2014 has all the support anyone could want are going to be rather disappointed to learn that the writers of D&D don't agree and are about to give us a big, thick, juicy book of all sorts of mechanics.

It's going to be an interesting year.

I think everyone agrees the DMG needs work. The devs have stated as such, I'm looking forward to see what they include.

 

[Minigiant]

Or ... if it ain't broke don't fix it. Why would they add major subsystems since the game is selling so far beyond expectations? Doesn't seem like anything people are demanding.

To make more money?

I mean they are already making 3-4 books a year.

Adding 10 extra pages a year could add 50-100% more sales to a book.

Do you know how much a new class that speaks to a new playstyle would sell?

I mean They still printed Strxhaven en after the the initial cool ideas failed and the book became 1 race, 2 feats, a meh adventure, and half done relationship system.


SHOW OF HANDS!

Who here would be a D&D book with a new class and a new subsystem that speaks to a weakly supported playstyle in D&D?

(raises hands)