D&D 5E Subclasses impact on class value

[MonkeezOnFire]

The problem I have is when all of the available subclass to too specific and don't allow me to continue the classes generic flavor. Sorcerer is the best example. Either I start growing scales on by face or I explode at random moments. There's no generic "inner magic" subclass. I get to choose between the colorful butterfly master and dragon-man, neither of which are flavor neutral enough for my liking.

I think that the Wild sorcerer was supposed to be the generic version of the class. You didn't have some kind of outsider mess with your family at some point, you're just magical. But because it comes with the narrative of being not in control of your powers and it's wild magic table is a pretty gonzo mechanic it doesn't feel generic. Which I think it a pretty big failure for the class because I agree with the bulk of your post that game feel is a very important part of playing the game.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Actually the fluff on the wild sorcerer is full of outsiders messing with you (the parallels to the warlock patrons are pretty clear--if an outsider gives you power [even unintentionally], by fluff you are a wild sorcerer, but if you make a deal, you are a warlock): they specifically mention fey, demons, and slaadi (and I think the Far Realm).

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Every time I cast a spell, I fly 10 ft. What's up with that?<br>
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Cast storm sphere, fly ten feet. Cast fireball, fly ten feet. Cast knock, fly ten feet. Cast water walk fly ten feet. Cast fly, fly ten feet. Cast dominate beast, fly ten feet. Cast stoneskin, fly ten feet.<br>
<br>
I turn myself into a rock, and propel myself upwards into the sky. Um...no thank you. Not quite neutral enough, still.

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<br>Seriously?  You aren't just messing with me, are you?  <br><br>Otherwise, I would hate to think what would have happened if they had made it "you cast a spell and get advantage on all saves", there might have been riots in the streets for all the injustice of it all.....<br>

 

[CapnZapp]

Well, that's tough, because the vectors for delivering those sort of options aren't as universally accepted as class/subclass. Feats could do it, but they're rare, and there isn't precedent for creating feats that are class-specific. (Granted, WotC could create the precedent.) Magic items and boons already exist to add powers to existing characters, but they've been removed as player-chosen options. Spells are a solid vector, but limited to only a few classes. Prestige classes and/or alternative class features (like in 3.5) could work as well, but PrCs have a lot of baggage, and I'm guessing the rune magic prestige class from a few years ago went over like a lead balloon, considering the lack of followup. PrCs would be my personal choice, though, 3e/5e levels are the right grain size for gaining different abilities, and provide obvious trade-offs.

Prestige classes, dragon marks, tattoos, Birthright blood lines, metamagic, wild psionics, skills & tactics, kits, boons, oh yeah

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Seriously? You aren't just messing with me, are you?

Otherwise, I would hate to think what would have happened if they had made it "you cast a spell and get advantage on all saves", there might have been riots in the streets for all the injustice of it all.....

No. I'm not joking. I really want to like the sub-class, but the specifics drive me nuts. Charm person -> fly 10 feet. Why? Charm has nothing to do with win or storms. If was it fly 30 feet after casting a spell that deal lightning or thunder damage, that would be cool. But casting detect magic and flying 10 feet does make sense to me. I simply cannot see the connection.

Casting a spell and gaining advantage on all saves makes a little more sense to me. Maybe it is some sort of shielding effect Your magic deflects all other forms of magic. I could get behind that.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I think that the Wild sorcerer was supposed to be the generic version of the class. You didn't have some kind of outsider mess with your family at some point, you're just magical. But because it comes with the narrative of being not in control of your powers and it's wild magic table is a pretty gonzo mechanic it doesn't feel generic. Which I think it a pretty big failure for the class because I agree with the bulk of your post that game feel is a very important part of playing the game.

Any class with the possibility of summoning a swarm of butterflies from a fireball is not what I would call generic, but I can see where the designers may have been thinking that. I really enjoyed the class in 3.5 I could make a thematic sorcerer by choosing specific spells. It peeves me I can no longer no that without a load of dragon, butterfly, or magic jumping power (story sorcery) baggage dragging my down.

 

[CapnZapp]

Every time I cast a spell, I fly 10 ft. What's up with that?

I believe the intent is to give you an easy way to get out from melee with enemies (which you're supposed to seek for Heart of the Storm) - those 10 feet doesn't trigger attacks of opportunity.

Of course, that's a monumentally questionable strategy for a spellcaster. You're much better off staying as far away from the monsters as possible.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I believe the intent is to give you an easy way to get out from melee with enemies (which you're supposed to seek for Heart of the Storm) - those 10 feet doesn't trigger attacks of opportunity.

Of course, that's a monumentally questionable strategy for a spellcaster. You're much better off staying as far away from the monsters as possible.

Well, yes, as a meta-game concern to avoid melee it makes perfect sense. But I'm not talking about the meta game. I'm talking about the visualization and feeling the subclass lends to the character.

Why exactly casting comprehend languages blows me away like a slingshot, I have no idea. "Got some documents for me a translate? Great, I needed an excuse to fly up that tree here. Didn't want to spend a spell slot to do it earlier in case I run into some orcs later."

What? *shakes head in confusion*

 

[JacktheRabbit]

The subclasses are very fun, some are quite interesting. One thing to remember is they are NOT balanced. The game designers straight up admit what is posted in UA is not balanced in regards to multiclassing. So there are several parts of UA subclasses that allow some pretty gamebreaking things with a level dip or two.

 

[Sunseeker]

Well sure, because you're not actually ever going to play "the class", you're always going to be playing "the subclass".