Summon Monster IX?

[reichtfeld]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what in the world is Summon Monster IX worth in comparison to the Gate spell to call a creature? Gate is a standard action to cast, SM9 is a full round action; range medium vs. range close; duration 1 round/level vs. 1 round/level. Using Gate you can summon an individual creature of double your caster level in HD which is outstanding compared to the SM9 list. So why would a caster want to use SM9? I'm guessing it's something obvious that I've overlooked.

 

[Malin Genie]

(Caveat: I may just be missing it too, but...) AFAIK there is no 'mechanical' reason not to use Gate rather than SM IX. Gate is indeed a much more powerful spell.

However, with Gate you are 'calling' (rather than Summoning) a free-willed extraplanar entity and controlling it by the force of a spell - I think in a campaign (as opposed to a one-off fight) the creature may well come back with some friends to poen up a can of whoop-@ss on you unless well rewarded or the cause is truly just (in the case of good extraplanar entities.)

 

[reichtfeld]

That actually is one thing that I considered, but the spell description places particular emphasis upon the creature performing an immediate task for no cost and performing an extended task for payment. I'm sure DMs exercise free reign adjudicating the spell in order to balance it and probably take the opportunity to introduce plot hooks through the use of gate (ie creatures with a vendetta), but going from the description alone it doesn't seem like there is any sort of physical or story cost to calling a creature. If the designers intended for there to be such a potential penalty to using gate I imagine it would've been put into the text. After all, they saw fit to write in the description that certain creatures might demand cattle as their payment for extended service in the place of gold or other treasures.

It seems that the called creature is the only one that gets the shaft with gate, because don't they die for good if killed during the duration?

 

[Bauglir]

One reason to go for SMIX is that it can summon larger things that can't come through a gate. An elder earth elemental is well worth having in a fight..

 

[Malin Genie]

Personally if I were DMing a campaign that reached 9th level spells I would seriously consider banning Gate - that a 17th level caster can summon and control a CR19 Solar (for example) which is more powerful than the caster, for the 'cost' of only one of the caster's spell slots?

Or if not banning Gate, perhaps allowing the planar travel option as written, but requiring a negotiation / exchange of services for any creature called through the Gate - after all, isn't there supposed to be a distinction between 'calling' and 'summoning' ? That would then provide at least some reason for casting SM IX....

I wonder whether the spell will be changed for 3.5E (if the seriously increased power of the Pit Fiend is anything to go by, I certainly hope so.....)

BTW: 20ft in diameter is plenty of room for Elder Earth Elementals....

 

[Destil]

Personally if I were DMing a campaign that reached 9th level spells I would seriously consider banning Gate - that a 17th level caster can summon and control a CR19 Solar (for example) which is more powerful than the caster, for the 'cost' of only one of the caster's spell slots?

Or if not banning Gate, perhaps allowing the planar travel option as written, but requiring a negotiation / exchange of services for any creature called through the Gate - after all, isn't there supposed to be a distinction between 'calling' and 'summoning' ? That would then provide at least some reason for casting SM IX....

I wonder whether the spell will be changed for 3.5E (if the seriously increased power of the Pit Fiend is anything to go by, I certainly hope so.....)

BTW: 20ft in diameter is plenty of room for Elder Earth Elementals....

I think this is what I would end up doing, myself. Though I think planar travel is fine, as is the long term summoning (a as super hyped up planar binding), but I'd leave out the option for short duration instant calling and releasing with no long tearm ramifications. Clearly that's getting into the domain of a summoning spell, not a calling spell.

 

[green slime]

I've fixed the casting time of Gate, so that it can't be used in battle.

And opened up more possibilities for higher level nasties via SMIX, according to caster level.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Give Gate a 10-minute casting time.

Still useful, but needs more planning.

 

[Taren Seeker]

As written, Gate is pretty broken for the Solar alone. There are a whole lot of other uses which are almost as bad.

A decent fix used in the Living City (FR) campaign is to limit gate to your caster level in HD, rather than double.

Otherwise, there can be some RP limitations on the spell. First, yes a called creature risks true death and some casters should be very hesitant to use it to call certain creatures. Second, really powerful creatures tend to get unhappy when they're yanked to the prime to bail out some caster. If the spell is being abused then I could see a "friendly" visit being paid to the caster. While he's alone in bed preferably.

edit: I like the 10 minute casting time as well.