Sundering a Shield? Opposed Attack Roll?

[Shin Okada]

When someone strike an enemy's shied (sunder action), how shall I calculate bonus for opposed attack roll for the defender? Assuming the defender is using his shield as a shild, not as a weapon in that turn,

a) Calculate as if the defender is doing a shield bash. No penalty
b) Calculate as if the defender is doing a shield bash. Apply off-hand penalty.
c) Calculate as if the defender is doing a shield bash. Apply off-hand penalty and two-weapon fighting penalty.
d) Non of the above.

 

[kreynolds]

When someone strike an enemy's shied (sunder action)...

Just to clarify, this is the "strike an object" option, not Sunder, which is a feat. Sunder only applies to weapons. I only mention this because many times I have seen the two confused, and when someone looks up the Sunder feat, they think they can strike a shield without provoking an AoO, or with Improved Sunder, they think they can deal double damage to a shield.

EDIT: It does fall under "strike a weapon". I was wrong.

 

[Shin Okada]

Re: Re: Sundering a Shield? Opposed Attack Roll?

???

But PHB P.136 "Strike a Weapon" description is including an attack against a shield in this action.

And shields can be used to bash opponent. So they are effectively a kind of weapn aren't they?

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Sundering a Shield? Opposed Attack Roll?

But PHB P.136 "Strike a Weapon" description is including an attack against a shield in this action.

Gah! Brain fart. There was a "strike a wand" thread recently that brought this up, but alas, a brain fart is responsible for this fiasco. Doh!

Still, AFAIK, Sunder only applies to weapons though.

 

[Zenon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sundering a Shield? Opposed Attack Roll?

Still, AFAIK, Sunder only applies to weapons though.

Actually, by the wording in the SRD, I'm not to sure about your statement:

SRD

Sunder [General]

Prerequisites: Str 13+, Power Attack.

Benefit: When the character strikes at an opponent’s weapon, the character does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

But if you look at the action of Striking a Weapon:

Strike a weapon [Standard][AoO: Yes]

Description: A combatant can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that a combatant's opponent is holding. The attacking weapon must be no more than one size category smaller than the weapon attacked. (Treat a buckler as Small, a small shield as Medium-size, a large shield as Large, and a tower shield as Huge.) Doing so provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent because the combatant is diverting it's attention from the opponent to the opponent's armaments.

Then the attacker and the defender make opposed attack rolls. If the attacker wins, the attacker has made a successful attack against the weapon or shield.

So they seem to class both weapons & shields as "weapons". So it could be argued that Sunder may work on a shield (at least according to the above quotes).

On the opposed attack roll, I think you would apply full BAB, Str mods, any feats for the shield (even thought it is technically on "off-hand weapon). After all the detail does not state to use any other modifiers (like 1/2 str if in off-hand).

Hmmm, this is a good question.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sundering a Shield? Opposed Attack Roll?

Actually, by the wording in the SRD, I'm not to sure about your statement:

By the wording in the SRD, the PH, and lack of errata, I'm actually pretty sure about it. Strike a weapon deliberately mentions "or shield". Sunder doesn't. Neither does Improved Sunder. I checked the FAQ, but I didn't find anything in there.

 

[Artoomis]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sundering a Shield? Opposed Attack Roll?

By the wording in the SRD, the PH, and lack of errata, I'm actually pretty sure about it. Strike a weapon deliberately mentions "or shield". Sunder doesn't. Neither does Improved Sunder. I checked the FAQ, but I didn't find anything in there.

I disagree:

Sunder mentions striking a weapon, and striking a weapon is defined in D&D as:

Strike a weapon [Standard][AoO: Yes]

Description: A combatant can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield...

Thus, for this purpose, a "weapon" includes a "shield" because of the definition of "strike a weapon."

This also makes sense as well. Both a shield and weapon are routinely used to deflect blows, so that the technique to sunder them is the same. Well, more or less... this is fantasy, and D&D fantasy at that.

To me, at least, any discussion of striking a weapon includes shields unless they are specifically excluded. This is by virtue of the fact that they are included in the definition of "strike a weapon."

 

[Zaruthustran]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sundering a Shield? Opposed Attack Roll?

By the wording in the SRD, the PH, and lack of errata, I'm actually pretty sure about it. Strike a weapon deliberately mentions "or shield". Sunder doesn't. Neither does Improved Sunder. I checked the FAQ, but I didn't find anything in there.

Well, that's the thing: sunder gives benefits when you "strike a weapon". The "strike a weapon" action specifically mentions "or shield".

So, it's pretty clear that Sunder applies to shields.

-z

EDIT: Doh - Artoomis beat me to it.

 

[IceBear]

Nevermind

 

[FlimFlam]

I still like cheese