Sundering a Shield? Opposed Attack Roll?

[Shadowlore]

...
And a tower shield is too big to be used as a weapon at all. (It is huge size after all, or large, anyways too large to be used in one hand as a weapon).

That depends on the creature weilding it. A giant using it to shield bash, perhaps, or a titan? After all, what is a small shield, or even a large shield to them? Not very damned much, I'd say.

Sure, when the shield is 6 feet tall, and so are you, it's a big deal. But when you are twelve, and it is six feet tall, not so big a deal (well, except for those on the receiving end ).

I look at it that way. The rules are not made for humans, but for creatures of differing sizes. After all, if you want to say that one could not sunder a tower shield as a large shield because of it's unwieldiness as a weapon for a medium sized creature, how about a large shield for a small sized creature? A halfling is probably not very likely to be using a large shield as a weapon.

Anyway, enough rambling.

 

[AGGEMAM]

That depends on the creature weilding it. A giant using it to shield bash, perhaps, or a titan? After all, what is a small shield, or even a large shield to them? Not very damned much, I'd say.

Sure, when the shield is 6 feet tall, and so are you, it's a big deal. But when you are twelve, and it is six feet tall, not so big a deal (well, except for those on the receiving end ).

I look at it that way. The rules are not made for humans, but for creatures of differing sizes. After all, if you want to say that one could not sunder a tower shield as a large shield because of it's unwieldiness as a weapon for a medium sized creature, how about a large shield for a small sized creature? A halfling is probably not very likely to be using a large shield as a weapon.

Anyway, enough rambling.

Shield and armor scale with the user, remember ?

Eg, if you are huge, let us say 12 feet tall, a tower shield would also be 12 feet tall, and still too large to use to use as a weapon in one hand.

 

[kreynolds]

I presume you are referring to me...

I guess so. Was that you?

EDIT: Ah. So it was. I couldn't remember.

...and CS is correct.

I didn't say they weren't. I merely pointed out that their reasoning was completely flawed.

 

[dkilgo]

I guess so. Was that you?

EDIT: Ah. So it was. I couldn't remember.



I didn't say they weren't. I merely pointed out that there reasoning was completely flawed.

Not to bother you, but for me to understand your reply, I would gratiously request that you inform me what CS stands for. Thank you.

 

[kreynolds]

...I would gratiously request that you inform me what CS stands for.

Customer Service for Wizards of the Coast. Heh. I also noticed a grammatical error in my post too.

 

[dkilgo]

Sorry, my fingers got away from me for a second.

Thanks.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I merely pointed out that their reasoning was completely flawed.

I hope my reasoning made more sense then.

 

[Shadowlore]

Shield and armor scale with the user, remember ?

No, I don't remember that, where is it? It doesn't make sense to me that they do anyway. Otherwise, why would there be tiny versions of certain weapons, why would the cost of a tower sheild for a halfling by the same as a tower sheild for a giant, if they are so vastly different in material costs? Why would a tower shield for a giant (L) be the same size category for a human (M) if they are scaled? The size category *does* make a difference for sundering, since you can only sunder something no more than one size category larger than the weapon used in the sunder. Hence, a dagger can not sunder a large sheild (or a greatsword), and bastard sword (or even greatsword) could not sunder a giant-sized tower shield.

If a fighter equips a tower shield, and a giant kills him and takes it, it does not change size ot fit the giant. If you make a giant-sized tower shield, sure it scaled to the giant -- when it was made.

The only armor I know of that scales to the user is magical armor. :^)

Due to size categories, and weight, etc. it *does* matter if a shield was made for a medium, tiny, Large, or Huge creature. Especially for sundering. According to "Strike a Weapon" (PH-126), I'd say that the given scales are for medium sized creatures w/shields.
I don't know of any DMs that would rule a halfling-sized tower shield to be a size category of "Huge". Likewise, I doubt many (if indeed any) DMs would allow a halfling with a dagger, or even a short sword, to sunder a giant-sized "large shield". I would likely rule that such a shield is a category "Huge" item, and thus could only be sundered by weapons that are sized large and above, i.e. a greatsword.

Eg, if you are huge, let us say 12 feet tall, a tower shield would also be 12 feet tall, and still too large to use to use as a weapon in one hand.

BTW, one or two hands has no effect on whether or not an item can be sundered. A two handed sword weilded by a human can not be weilde done handed, yet can still be targeted by a sunder attack -all things being equal.


So, to summarize my probably wandering post:

Sunder shields:
Absolutely, the PH says for teh sunder feat to see "Strike a Weapon", which says shields. It does not at *all* eliminate a tower shield by virtue of it being a tower shield.

Sunder a tower shield?
Yes -- if your weapon is large enough!

This is true of *any* shield. A dagger against a large shield? Nope. A longsword? Yup.

Well, must sleep and have two other threads to look at first. Hope I didn't come off rude or anything.

Bill

 

[AGGEMAM]

SNIPPED

Since you did not remember, here it is.

From the SRD

Armor for Unusual Creatures
The information on Table: Armor is for Medium-size creatures. Armor for Tiny or smaller creatures costs half as much as that for Medium-size creatures, provides half as much protection, and weighs one-tenth or less as much. Armor for Large characters costs double and weighs twice as much, and for Huge creatures it costs quadruple and weighs five times as much. Armor for even larger creatures must be specially made and has no standard price or weight.
Armor for a nonhumanoid creature costs twice as much as the same armor for a humanoid.

Emphasis added.

You cannot use armors or shields that is not made for your size category, no matter what. That is why the DMG suggests that you let magical armors and shields resize to fit the wearer.

 

[kreynolds]

I hope my reasoning made more sense then.

Your initial reasoning? Not at all. Your recent reasoning? Absolutely.