Sundering a Shield? Opposed Attack Roll?

[dkilgo]

I have a question, now.

When talking about sizes of weapons and shields, are the size categories listed in the PHB, and other materials, determined by what a medium sized character could wield?

What I am trying to say is that a dagger is considered a tiny weapon in the hands of a human, and a greatsword is considered large. Now taking this into consideration would a character be able to sunder a huge giants large shiled?

Because my take on this is as such: A great sword in the hands of a human is considered large, but a human size great sword in the mands of a huge giant is considered what? A medium-sized weapon? I don't know...

If you need some clarification on what I am trying to ask then I will galdly give it. I am just not quite able to ask this clearly because I am not quite sure of how I would handle this.

 

[Shadowlore]

Since you did not remember, here it is.

Emphasis added.

You cannot use armors or shields that is not made for your size category, no matter what. That is why the DMG suggests that you let magical armors and shields resize to fit the wearer.

Where does it say you cannot use shields made for a different size category? Armor is kinda obvious in thay it will not fit you, but I don't remember anything that prohibits you from using a shield from another size category, provided you have the proficiency and physical capability. Granted, if a (M) creature picks up and uses a (S)-large shield, they don't get the bonus for alarge shield, they get half of it (see below). But that doesn't mean they are not allowed.

Actually, I had the part you quoted in my original post, but removed it, so I did not forget it. I just do not see how that applies, or infers what you said.

Note that the paragraph you referenced said that armor/shields for small sized creatures provide half the protection (and hence half the armor bonus). Now, that would be illogical if a medium sized creature were prohibited from using it at all, since the shield sized for a small creature would provide a proportionate amount of protection to a small creature as a normal sized one does to medium sized creatures.

Now, back to the topic ... did you have any comments regarding the sundering of shields as I laid them out? Perhaps if we want to talk about whether or not shields scale, or that a (M) creature is prohibited from using a shield that is sized for a different sized category, we need a new thread?

Cheers,
Bill

 

[Shadowlore]

I have a question, now.

When talking about sizes of weapons and shields, are the size categories listed in the PHB, and other materials, determined by what a medium sized character could wield?

What I am trying to say is that a dagger is considered a tiny weapon in the hands of a human, and a greatsword is considered large. Now taking this into consideration would a character be able to sunder a huge giants large shiled?

Because my take on this is as such: A great sword in the hands of a human is considered large, but a human size great sword in the mands of a huge giant is considered what? A medium-sized weapon? I don't know...

If you need some clarification on what I am trying to ask then I will galdly give it. I am just not quite able to ask this clearly because I am not quite sure of how I would handle this.

I think I know what you are asking.

If a giant (L) picks up a greatsword, it does not change the weapon's size category. Relatively speaking, it is a lighter weapon to the giant, but it is still a Large weapon.

So, for sundering purposes, (for example), it is still a (L) sized weapon. To me, this means that a giant (L) can use a "normal" longsword as "light weapon". A light weapon is defined as a weapon one size category smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon the same size, and a two handed one size largerr.

So, to sum up, the size category doesn't change, but the relative weight/hands required does.

now to your sunder question .. if you are talking about a Huge giant, I'd say not bloody likely. A Huge giant's appropriately sized shield is size ... Gargantuan. Huge is two steps above Medium, Large shield for Medium creaure is Large so I upped the size category for the shield by two steps. Large shields are one size category larger than the wielder, relatively speaking.

So, short of the medium chracter wielding a Huge weapon (not bloody likely), I'd say nope.

 

[AGGEMAM]

When talking about sizes of weapons and shields, are the size categories listed in the PHB, and other materials, determined by what a medium sized character could wield?

Somewhat, but read this:

From the SRD

Tiny, Small, Medium-Size, and Large Weapons: The size of a weapon compared to a character's size determines whether for the character the weapon is light, one-handed, two-handed, or too large to use.

Light: If the weapon's size category is smaller than the character's, then the weapon is light for that character. Light weapons are easier to use in the off hand, and they can be used while grappling. A light weapon can be used in one hand. There is no special bonus when using such a weapon in two hands.

One-Handed: If the weapon's size category is the same as a character's, then the weapon is one-handed for that character. If a one-handed melee weapon is used two-handed, apply one and a half times the character's Strength bonus to damage (provided the character has a bonus).
Thrown weapons can only be thrown one-handed, and a character's Strength bonus is added to the damage.

Two-Handed: If the weapon's size category is one step larger than a character's, then the weapon is two-handed for that character. A two-handed melee weapon can be used effectively in two hands, and when damage is dealt with it, add one and a half times the character's Strength bonus to damage (provided the character has a bonus).
Thrown weapons can only be thrown one-handed. A character can throw a thrown weapon with one hand even if it would be two-handed for you due to the character's size, but doing so counts as a full-round action because the weapon is bulkier and harder to handle than most thrown weapons. Add the character's Strength bonus to damage.

Too Large to Use: If the weapon's size category is two or more steps larger than a character's own, the weapon is too large for the character to use.

Unarmed Strikes: An unarmed strike is two size categories smaller than the character using it.

What I am trying to say is that a dagger is considered a tiny weapon in the hands of a human, and a greatsword is considered large. Now taking this into consideration would a character be able to sunder a huge giants large shiled?

No, see shadowlore's answer above.

Because my take on this is as such: A great sword in the hands of a human is considered large, but a human size great sword in the mands of a huge giant is considered what? A medium-sized weapon?

No, still a large size weapon, but the weapon would a light weapon for the giant since it is one size catagory small than the giant. Btw, the giant would need a Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Medium-sized characters Greatsword) to wield it effectively.

If you need some clarification on what I am trying to ask then I will galdly give it. I am just not quite able to ask this clearly because I am not quite sure of how I would handle this.

I do not think that is needed .. I could mistaken, though ..

 

[Shadowlore]

No, still a large size weapon, but the weapon would a light weapon for the giant since it is one size catagory small than the giant. Btw, the giant would need a Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Medium-sized characters Greatsword) to wield it effectively.

Why? House Rule? FAQ Entry? If so, where?

 

[AGGEMAM]

Why? House Rule? FAQ Entry? If so, where?

Is the weapon made for a Large let alone a Huge sized character ? No ! Then it is an exotic weapon.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is the weapon made for a Large let alone a Huge sized character ? No ! Then it is an exotic weapon.

Do you require a halfling fighter to take an EWP to use a Medium longsword two-handed? Does he have to find someone who can make a halfling-sized Medium Greatsword (which happens to have exactly the same stats as a standard longsword)?

-Hyp.

 

[Shadowlore]

Is the weapon made for a Large let alone a Huge sized character ? No ! Then it is an exotic weapon.

Where is it written? If it is your own idea, that's fine, and you are certainly entitled to it. But if it is not RAW, or Errata, then please state it is simply your opinion, or your house rule. I've looked for what you claim, but do not see it anywhere.

I'm asking where it says that. If it doesn't, at least say so, so I can stop wasting my time looking for something that doesn't exist.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Where is it written? If it is your own idea, that's fine, and you are certainly entitled to it. But if it is not RAW, or Errata, then please state it is simply your opinion, or your house rule. I've looked for what you claim, but do not see it anywhere.

I'm asking where it says that. If it doesn't, at least say so, so I can stop wasting my time looking for something that doesn't exist.

Ok, for now this is my opinion. In march it will be official rules. Does this satisfy you.

Consider that the huge sized character actually has to hold the weapon between his thumb and his indexfinger because the handle is much too thin and short for him to grip otherwise.

 

[Shadowlore]

Ok, for now this is my opinion. In march it will be official rules. Does this satisfy you.

Consider that the huge sized character actually has to hold the weapon between his thumb and his indexfinger because the handle is much too thin for him to grip otherwise.

Yes, that works fine, thank you.

However, on your second point, I don't need an exotic weapon proficiency to wield a kitchen knife because it has a small grip, whereas a great sword (yes, I've wielded a few in my day) has a larger grip. A human fighter can wield a bastard sword with two hands w/o an EWP, but to wield it wingle-handed takes one. The cause isn't the grip, it is the style of use, and the weight differential/balance.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying that. My group sat around for half an hour tonight looking for it. They'll be glad to know it isn't there.

And yes, I've had a vested interest in pursuing this, I've a character that can be either large or medium, and since his sword is not yet a magical one, it makes a difference as to whether or not he is proficient in his greatsword in both forms.

Anyway, guess I'm done on this subject.

Cheers