Level Up (A5E) Sunset Riders Fantasy Western! (Campaign Setting thoughts)

[Steampunkette]

So... rattling around in my brain for the past year and a little more is the idea of doing a fantasy western setting.

There's -tons- of Pseudo-Medieval Europe settings, a fair few Steampunk Europe settings, and a couple "Outlier" concept settings like Eberron which really don't feel like they belong to any one time period or region of the world. Dark Sun is another really good example of that. Meanwhile Ravenloft is Spooky Europe... And most of the settings for southeast Asia are... problematic... to say the least.

But there's also some strong Weird West contenders like the inestimable Deadlands or the Fistful of Darkness setting. There's also the EXCELLENT Sci-Fantasy setting Coyote and Crow which involves an America that was never colonized.

But when I say "Fantasy Western" I mean more "D&D with Cowboys". Gonzo monsters, kings and fiefdoms, stagecoach robberies, dragons... The whole nine yards. In point of fact it's why I've got the Gunslinger in Martial Artistry.

And a part of why I wanna do it is: I have English players, now, in my games, and I'm mortified of my terrible 'faux-British' accents that I know are hilariously inaccurate compared to my Midwestern accent or my Brooklyn accent or my variety of southern accents... Watching Brennan Lee Mulligan have Midwest halfling anarcho-socialists was pretty huge, if I'm honest. And Plug with his Butt Ugly Stuff Hut was also influential.

So lemme touch on a few of the core conceits and see what y'all think:

1) No Colonization (Almost)
This is a fantasy setting where the allegorical European settlers didn't found colonies. Instead they joined the cultures and communities of people who already lived in Acadia. They brought their own cultural elements, of course. Food, clothing styles, customs, religions. But rather than try to conquer the Acadian natives they did their best to settle alongside them in symbiosis where possible, and outright joined their societies where it made more sense to do so. However...

2) Evil Empire
Gotta have a pretty universally recognized "Bad Guy" in most settings. And since this is a setting about a fantasy version of America where the settlers weren't evil conquering jerks, having some solid evil and conquering jerks helps to show they're not imperialists. An expansionist imperial interest has landed on the continent of Acadia and begun conquering settlements and nation-states. They're slavers and they're building rail lines to connect their empire and expand its reach. Hard to avoid using a railroad to get where you wanna go without giving them money.

3) Fantastic Environments
Redwood forests are incredible and rarely seen in your typical D&D setting. But there's also the Great Basin. Historically there was an Inland Sea that stretched from Canada down through Wyoming and Nevada. It dried up millions of years ago, of course, but in this setting it dried up a few years ago. So now there's this strange and wondrous "Bottom of the Ocean" vibe in the deserts of the southwest. Coral highlands and shallow salt-rich lakes. Populated largely by aberrations that used to live at the bottom of the sea now living largely in caves. Things like Gricks and Carrion Crawlers. How about Appalachia as it's described by the people who live there? How about New England as Lovecraft writes it, and Maine as King writes it?

4) American Monsters
In addition to the traditional ogres and faeries of forgotten realms, some good old fashioned American mythical monsters. Hoop snakes and Hodags. Skunk Apes and Snallygasters. Even the dreaded Dungavenhooter and the adorably dangerous Jackalope. Might even go on a -real- Snipe hunt! From the Jersey Devil to the Chupacabra, America's got some wild monsters in it's myths and legends. Might even come across a herd of Blue Oxen... or some Ghost Riders in the Sky.... But also let Don Quixote tilt windmills -and- giants in equal measure!

5) American Dangers
While the idea of making a deal with the devil appears to have started in Europe sometime around 1000 CE, no other culture has ever done it as thoroughly as America has. Whether it's Crossroads Deals or Politicians selling their soul for a shot at office it's a common theme. And tied to it? The idea of dying a little inside every day. Of giving up pieces of your soul over time to accomplish things that seem necessary, even if they're evil... So how about a setting where it's not only easy to lose parts of your soul... but where you don't -die- when it's gone? Where you might even be able to get it back by outwitting a devil, or fighting to take it back from other monsters... Or even do a train robbery on the Ghost Train to reclaim your own soul before its ticket is punched...

6) Magical Metal and Spellcraft
Every single suit of armor, every sword, every gun and bullet, is imbued with -just- enough magic to keep the game fair. Guns are fun and interesting weapons, but they're not significantly stronger, or more expensive, than a longsword. They are, however, ridiculously easy to use compared to a longbow. Coincidentally, Warcasters are their own thing in the setting with magical force-shields to protect against cannonfire and return volleys of firebolts.

7) Nebulous Time Period
Pretty much every Weird West game is set right after the Civil War, essentially, so far as cultures and technology. And every fantasy game is nebulously trapped between the 8th and 15th centuries. But for this setting? Knights in shining armor, cowboys, railcars, golden age pirates, and six-gun samurai. Everything all at once because wild! Why bind yourself to a specific time period in a fantasy setting meant to make an imaginary America feel like D&D? Okay, so I'll probably make some of it more or less Regional. But you have to admit a knight wearing black armor with a great coat and a tin star hunting down criminals to bring them to justice would be amazing in it's own way. Blend the tropes!

8) Heritage Variety
Every heritage in every culture. Native Acadians aren't all Elves or something weird like that. They're the same sort of blend of heritages as any other culture in the setting. Elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, etc. PROBABLY try to keep the player heritage variety a touch limited in the world-book, but let players import whatever heritages they want to their tables. Nothing wrong with havinge Podes off the coast or Zevite invaders. Honestly, looking over the heritage list in A5e.tools I'm positively shocked there's no "Undead Heritage" yet... so I might add that to the setting. After all: Spooky Western is a whole genre as we've established.

What do you think? Is this a thing I should work toward publishing or just keep it for my own table?

 

[DarkRainbowFiend]

So... rattling around in my brain for the past year and a little more is the idea of doing a fantasy western setting.

There's -tons- of Pseudo-Medieval Europe settings, a fair few Steampunk Europe settings, and a couple "Outlier" concept settings like Eberron which really don't feel like they belong to any one time period or region of the world. Dark Sun is another really good example of that. Meanwhile Ravenloft is Spooky Europe... And most of the settings for southeast Asia are... problematic... to say the least.

But there's also some strong Weird West contenders like the inestimable Deadlands or the Fistful of Darkness setting. There's also the EXCELLENT Sci-Fantasy setting Coyote and Crow which involves an America that was never colonized.

But when I say "Fantasy Western" I mean more "D&D with Cowboys". Gonzo monsters, kings and fiefdoms, stagecoach robberies, dragons... The whole nine yards. In point of fact it's why I've got the Gunslinger in Martial Artistry.

And a part of why I wanna do it is: I have English players, now, in my games, and I'm mortified of my terrible 'faux-British' accents that I know are hilariously inaccurate compared to my Midwestern accent or my Brooklyn accent or my variety of southern accents... Watching Brennan Lee Mulligan have Midwest halfling anarcho-socialists was pretty huge, if I'm honest. And Plug with his Butt Ugly Stuff Hut was also influential.

So lemme touch on a few of the core conceits and see what y'all think:

1) No Colonization (Almost)
This is a fantasy setting where the allegorical European settlers didn't found colonies. Instead they joined the cultures and communities of people who already lived in Acadia. They brought their own cultural elements, of course. Food, clothing styles, customs, religions. But rather than try to conquer the Acadian natives they did their best to settle alongside them in symbiosis where possible, and outright joined their societies where it made more sense to do so. However...

2) Evil Empire
Gotta have a pretty universally recognized "Bad Guy" in most settings. And since this is a setting about a fantasy version of America where the settlers weren't evil conquering jerks, having some solid evil and conquering jerks helps to show they're not imperialists. An expansionist imperial interest has landed on the continent of Acadia and begun conquering settlements and nation-states. They're slavers and they're building rail lines to connect their empire and expand its reach. Hard to avoid using a railroad to get where you wanna go without giving them money.

3) Fantastic Environments
Redwood forests are incredible and rarely seen in your typical D&D setting. But there's also the Great Basin. Historically there was an Inland Sea that stretched from Canada down through Wyoming and Nevada. It dried up millions of years ago, of course, but in this setting it dried up a few years ago. So now there's this strange and wondrous "Bottom of the Ocean" vibe in the deserts of the southwest. Coral highlands and shallow salt-rich lakes. Populated largely by aberrations that used to live at the bottom of the sea now living largely in caves. Things like Gricks and Carrion Crawlers. How about Appalachia as it's described by the people who live there? How about New England as Lovecraft writes it, and Maine as King writes it?

4) American Monsters
In addition to the traditional ogres and faeries of forgotten realms, some good old fashioned American mythical monsters. Hoop snakes and Hodags. Skunk Apes and Snallygasters. Even the dreaded Dungavenhooter and the adorably dangerous Jackalope. Might even go on a -real- Snipe hunt! From the Jersey Devil to the Chupacabra, America's got some wild monsters in it's myths and legends. Might even come across a herd of Blue Oxen... or some Ghost Riders in the Sky.... But also let Don Quixote tilt windmills -and- giants in equal measure!

5) American Dangers
While the idea of making a deal with the devil appears to have started in Europe sometime around 1000 CE, no other culture has ever done it as thoroughly as America has. Whether it's Crossroads Deals or Politicians selling their soul for a shot at office it's a common theme. And tied to it? The idea of dying a little inside every day. Of giving up pieces of your soul over time to accomplish things that seem necessary, even if they're evil... So how about a setting where it's not only easy to lose parts of your soul... but where you don't -die- when it's gone? Where you might even be able to get it back by outwitting a devil, or fighting to take it back from other monsters... Or even do a train robbery on the Ghost Train to reclaim your own soul before its ticket is punched...

6) Magical Metal and Spellcraft
Every single suit of armor, every sword, every gun and bullet, is imbued with -just- enough magic to keep the game fair. Guns are fun and interesting weapons, but they're not significantly stronger, or more expensive, than a longsword. They are, however, ridiculously easy to use compared to a longbow. Coincidentally, Warcasters are their own thing in the setting with magical force-shields to protect against cannonfire and return volleys of firebolts.

7) Nebulous Time Period
Pretty much every Weird West game is set right after the Civil War, essentially, so far as cultures and technology. And every fantasy game is nebulously trapped between the 8th and 15th centuries. But for this setting? Knights in shining armor, cowboys, railcars, golden age pirates, and six-gun samurai. Everything all at once because wild! Why bind yourself to a specific time period in a fantasy setting meant to make an imaginary America feel like D&D? Okay, so I'll probably make some of it more or less Regional. But you have to admit a knight wearing black armor with a great coat and a tin star hunting down criminals to bring them to justice would be amazing in it's own way. Blend the tropes!

8) Heritage Variety
Every heritage in every culture. Native Acadians aren't all Elves or something weird like that. They're the same sort of blend of heritages as any other culture in the setting. Elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, etc. PROBABLY try to keep the player heritage variety a touch limited in the world-book, but let players import whatever heritages they want to their tables. Nothing wrong with havinge Podes off the coast or Zevite invaders. Honestly, looking over the heritage list in A5e.tools I'm positively shocked there's no "Undead Heritage" yet... so I might add that to the setting. After all: Spooky Western is a whole genre as we've established.

What do you think? Is this a thing I should work toward publishing or just keep it for my own table?

i would go for it. The railroad is also very central in westerns as well, as it should be pointed out. i would also suggest researching native american belief to flesh things out abit.

 

[MGibster]

Stephen King's Dark Tower series is one of the few western fantasy books I've read. I've read a few short stories over the years, but cannot remember their titles or authors. The setting for DT is rather nebulous and Roland & Company bounce from world to world, including our own.

For a old west setting, you can't go wrong by looking at the common tropes in the western genre.

• The introduction of civilization/technology to the frontier.
• Rugged individualism.
• Man versus nature.
• Prostitutes with hearts of gold.
• The gambler.
• The bounty hunter.
• The outlaw.
• Beautiful scenerey (Monument Valley, Yellowstone, etc., etc.)

 

[Steampunkette]

An adventuring party, level 3, on horseback, ride down a dusty gulley from a mesa toward a swiftly approaching train that glows with eerie light and leaves an ephemeral trail in its wake. Hard they ride to get close enough to the speeding ghost train to get hold of the caboose and climb aboard with grim expressions.

Through the cars they go, making their way through room after room of Psychopomp Train Attendants trying to check their tickets or throw them off the train. Someone screams out "Soulless!" and the passengers quake in fear of the dark party, still living, stalk through the cars to their own souls.

Once they've recovered them, the undead Marshals who keep the peace of the dead attack, trying to get the souls back, forcing the group up onto the roof of the train cars to battle. In the distance a bell tolls over a lonely and abandoned church. They had 10 minutes 'til midnight. 'Til they had to get off the train. Now they've mere seconds before it, and they, pass to the afterlife.

Leaping from the train, they save themselves and their souls. Dust themselves off, saddle up... and hunt down the sorry son of a gun who took their souls in the first place.

... I feel like that's a good opening to a campaign.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

i saw this during my break at work today, and i was...kind of baffled at it. i'm glad i did see it at work, because i managed to organize my thoughts enough to be able to explain why this baffled me so much - and it's this:

2) Evil Empire
Gotta have a pretty universally recognized "Bad Guy" in most settings. And since this is a setting about a fantasy version of America where the settlers weren't evil conquering jerks, having some solid evil and conquering jerks helps to show they're not imperialists. An expansionist imperial interest has landed on the continent of Acadia and begun conquering settlements and nation-states. They're slavers and they're building rail lines to connect their empire and expand its reach. Hard to avoid using a railroad to get where you wanna go without giving them money.

so, the american settlers in this setting have integrated with the natives instead of conquering them...and then we have another group conquering the natives ala the american indian wars and setting up railways ala the transcontinental railway. uhm...what? who're the american settlers here again?

in other words, this conceit (in combination with the first) feels confused to me. i think it muddies who's who too much. i wouldn't say the base idea with it is necessarily bad? just that the way it's written here sounds like it could end up being kind of a mess if you're not careful.

i like the rest of it a lot, though. the idea of essentially a mythic america is pretty rad, and that campaign hook is pretty metal.

 

[Morrus]

There’s a bunch of mythical American monsters in Mythological Figures & Maleficent Monsters.

 

[Aldarc]

i saw this during my break at work today, and i was...kind of baffled at it. i'm glad i did see it at work, because i managed to organize my thoughts enough to be able to explain why this baffled me so much - and it's this:

so, the american settlers in this setting have integrated with the natives instead of conquering them...and then we have another group conquering the natives ala the american indian wars and setting up railways ala the transcontinental railway. uhm...what? who're the american settlers here again?

in other words, this conceit (in combination with the first) feels confused to me. i think it muddies who's who too much. i wouldn't say the base idea with it is necessarily bad? just that the way it's written here sounds like it could end up being kind of a mess if you're not careful.

i like the rest of it a lot, though. the idea of essentially a mythic america is pretty rad, and that campaign hook is pretty metal.

I kinda agree that the evil empire seems to muddies the water too much. I wonder if it would be easier to have the "evil empire" simply be capitalistic Robber Barons. That would also work with the expanding railways. However, the smooth integration of the European settlers with the American Indians also feels like it's also potentially white-washing away a lot of issues.

I am also curious how African American analogues are part of this setting because they were also unmentioned. Are they enslaved by the Evil Empire? (Hopefully not.) Did they "voluntarily" settle alongside the European and American Indian analogues? (Again, potentially white-washing it all.) This is also not to mention the various East Asian migrants who settled America's west coast.

 

[DarkRainbowFiend]

i saw this during my break at work today, and i was...kind of baffled at it. i'm glad i did see it at work, because i managed to organize my thoughts enough to be able to explain why this baffled me so much - and it's this:

so, the american settlers in this setting have integrated with the natives instead of conquering them...and then we have another group conquering the natives ala the american indian wars and setting up railways ala the transcontinental railway. uhm...what? who're the american settlers here again?

in other words, this conceit (in combination with the first) feels confused to me. i think it muddies who's who too much. i wouldn't say the base idea with it is necessarily bad? just that the way it's written here sounds like it could end up being kind of a mess if you're not careful.

i like the rest of it a lot, though. the idea of essentially a mythic america is pretty rad, and that campaign hook is pretty metal.

I kinda agree that the evil empire seems to muddies the water too much. I wonder if it would be easier to have the "evil empire" simply be capitalistic Robber Barons. That would also work with the expanding railways. However, the smooth integration of the European settlers with the American Indians also feels like it's also potentially white-washing away a lot of issues.

I am also curious how African American analogues are part of this setting because they were also unmentioned. Are they enslaved by the Evil Empire? (Hopefully not.) Did they "voluntarily" settle alongside the European and American Indian analogues? (Again, potentially white-washing it all.) This is also not to mention the various East Asian migrants who settled America's west coast.

I also wonder if splitting the settlers into two factions, the conquering naughty words, and the ones who want to integrate with the natives peacefully, would be a better idea than having one and two be separate countries.

 

[Tonguez]

i saw this during my break at work today, and i was...kind of baffled at it. i'm glad i did see it at work, because i managed to organize my thoughts enough to be able to explain why this baffled me so much - and it's this:

so, the american settlers in this setting have integrated with the natives instead of conquering them...and then we have another group conquering the natives ala the american indian wars and setting up railways ala the transcontinental railway. uhm...what? who're the american settlers here again?

in other words, this conceit (in combination with the first) feels confused to me. i think it muddies who's who too much. i wouldn't say the base idea with it is necessarily bad? just that the way it's written here sounds like it could end up being kind of a mess if you're not careful.

i like the rest of it a lot, though. the idea of essentially a mythic america is pretty rad, and that campaign hook is pretty metal.

I agree it does muddy the waters, and while the concept of no colonisation (but still some colonisation) may have noble intent it does both ignore a huge hunk of history and becomes a point of obfuscation of that history.

in my opinion you’d be better off acknowledging that French/Spanish/British/Dutch/Swedish/Russian colonies existed alongside Indigenous nations like the Haudenosaunee, the Five Tribes of Sequoyah, Northwestern Confederacy. Use the flexible timeline and go to alt History ( Battle of Fallen Timbers is won by the Northwest Confederacy, Sequoyah is recognised as an independent state) and make the indigenous nations interesting - I’d go as far as making the State of Sequoyah the source of the settings steampunk industries, giving a possibly indigenous counter to the Evil Railroad Empire.

anyway great idea, I was a fan of Northern Crown when it was released and the Alvin Maker stories before that so. Theres definitely potential. You could also explore things like the Gullah culture in Carolina and the Chinese kongsi in California. Chinese are also closely associated with the Railroad expansion - which ties to your Railroad Empire

 

[DarkRainbowFiend]

I agree it does muddy the waters, and while the concept of no colonisation (but still some colonisation) may have noble intent it does both ignore a huge hunk of history and become a point of obfuscation of that history.

in my opinion you’d be better off acknowledging that French/Spanish/British/Dutch/Swedish/Russian colonies existed alongside Indigenous nations like the Haudenosaunee, the Five Tribes of Sequoyah, Northwestern Confederacy. Use the flexible timeline and go to alt History ( Battle of Fallen Timbers is won by the Northwest Confederacy, Sequoyah is recognised as an independent state) and make the indigenous nations interesting - I’d go as far as making Sequoyah State the source of the settings steampunk industries, giving a possibly indigenous counter to the Evil Railroad Empire.

anyway great idea, I was a fan of Northern Crown when it was released and the Alvin Maker stories before that so. Theres definitely potential. You could also explore things like the Gullah culture in Carolina and the Chinese kongsi in California. Chinese are also closely associated with the Railroad expansion - which ties to your Railroad Empire

Your suggestion of one of the native tribes becoming a major faction vaguely reminds me of a book series about dragons in the Napoleonic era, and as a background world-building detail, the Aztecs were able to survive against the Spanish conquistadors because they had dragons. My memory is sketchy but I think that's more or less the gist. Nothing to do with this Western fantasy campaign setting but this vaguely reminded me of it so I brought it up.
Also, the idea of multiple factions of colonisers with varying tolerance for the natives is probably better then "friendly colonisers" and "evil railroad empire", or at least more interesting. I also might suggest to Steampunkette to pair up with someone who knows a lot about Wild West/American frontier history.