Spoilers Superman Spoiler Thread

[Lidgar]

Watched it last night. A fun summer flick that I could watch again. Biggest misses (as have been mentioned already) was lack of character development for both Superman and Lex. I thought Nicholas Hoult was fantastic in the role of Lex. I just felt his reasons for going after SM fell a bit flat at the end. And boy, the way things instantly appear on the news to move the plot along within seconds...well I get it, but its still jarring. The "social media judgment day" thing was overplayed.

Oh, and Mr. Terrific stole the show. As well as Jimmy Olsen - that was a pretty funny twist for his "nerdy" character.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Come to think of it, that bit reminds me somewhat of another great hero: Esmeralda Weatherwax.

"There is a very interesting debate raging at the moment about the nature of sin, for example," said Oats. "And what do they think? Against it, are they?" said Granny Weatherwax.
"It’s not as simple as that. It’s not a black and white issue. There are so many shades of gray."
"Nope."
"Pardon?"
"There’s no grays, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.
"It’s a lot more complicated than that . . ."
"No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts."
"Oh, I’m sure there are worse crimes . . ."
"But they starts with thinking about people as things . . . "
—Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum

Maybe "being kind" is the real punk rock.

 

[chuckdee]

Action: Generally ok, but Snyderverse captured Superman's capability better. This Superman feels too small for Superman. His Kaiju battle is fine, but doesn't make sense in terms of the damage inflicted or the tactics used. The scene where he relaxes while a threat is being battled by others just feels wrong. He never feels like he has the speed of the Flash or that he is the strongest being alive. They call him the most powerful Metahuman ... but he feels like one of the crowd for most of the movie.

Gunn is on record as saying that he doesn't like the very powerful Superman, so I think this was by intent.

 

[chuckdee]

Quick reaction version… maybe more detail later.

I liked it. Didn’t check my watch once. It was a fun film.

I do have criticisms though. If you’re going to use the iconic theme just use it just not a worse part of it. And Supes lacked gravitas. He’s the straight man; the characters around him can be the comedians. He doesn’t need to wisecrack. Same with Luther. He was fine but lacked gravitas. Mark Strong would have been a better choice.

Loved Krypto. He is literally my dog plus superpowers.

But those criticisms aside, it was a fun movie. He’s no Reeve (but who is?) but he does embody the goodness of the character, if not the earnestness.

My favourite Lois Lane. Guy Gardner was fantastic and funny. Maybe my favourite character in the movie. And also clearly way more powerful than Supes!

People said it would be crowded with superheroes.... but characters like Hawkgirl, the Engineer, etc. were side characters at most. They didn't crowd anything. A couple of lines each.

I think it was great. It just maybe needed some more breathing space. Too much in too short a time (but then I hate long movies).

Weirdly my wife hated the mad scientist aspect of Lex… that’s always been part of his character to me, but she’s only seen the movies. And in those all he’s ever really done is find a Kryptonite and use it against Superman. But I loved that side of his character.

Or make a Superman clone… again…

Yeah, Superman clones or variations of are getting a bit tired. It was obvious from the start. It’s not like they didn’t do the exact same thing in Superman IV, the Superman & Lois TV show, the animated movies, etc. Plus non-Lex generated clones like in Superman III, or Lex making clones of Zod like in Bats v Supes. So the twist was no twist to anybody who has seen Superman movies before.

And Krypto. Did I mention him before? Well here he is again. Loved. Krypto.

Overall—loved it. Ranking:

Superman The Movie
Superman II
Man of Steel
Superman 2025
Superman III
Superman Returns
Batman vs Superman
Justice League
Superman IV

I like this ranking in the first half. I'd rank BvS (director's cut) and ZSJL after 2025, and superman returns as higher than III.

An interesting exercise I think I'm going to try is to rank all of the superman properties, including animated and TV.

 

[jgsugden]

Gunn is on record as saying that he doesn't like the very powerful Superman, so I think this was by intent.

... and, IMHO, a mistake. They call him the most powerful metahuman alive in the opening crawl ... he should feel like it in the movie.

 

[overgeeked]

Come to think of it, that bit reminds me somewhat of another great hero: Esmeralda Weatherwax.

"There is a very interesting debate raging at the moment about the nature of sin, for example," said Oats. "And what do they think? Against it, are they?" said Granny Weatherwax.
"It’s not as simple as that. It’s not a black and white issue. There are so many shades of gray."
"Nope."
"Pardon?"
"There’s no grays, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.
"It’s a lot more complicated than that . . ."
"No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts."
"Oh, I’m sure there are worse crimes . . ."
"But they starts with thinking about people as things . . . "
—Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum

Exactly. Whatever the flaws in the details of the movie, Superman as an empathetic hero out to save lives has finally made a comeback. The fact that opening weekend is pointing to utterly trouncing the Snyder anti-hero version is vindicating.

 

[overgeeked]

... and, IMHO, a mistake. They call him the most powerful metahuman alive in the opening crawl ... he should feel like it in the movie.

It’s a perennial issue with superhero media generally and Supes specifically. The escalation problem. Anyone powerful enough to physically challenge Superman could punch cities off the map. An actual fight between them would shatter the planet. It’s why you get smart foes for Supes so often or things get taken to space or Kryptonite or…

 

[Justice and Rule]

... and, IMHO, a mistake. They call him the most powerful metahuman alive in the opening crawl ... he should feel like it in the movie.

Eh, he did feel like that pretty consistently to me. The only person who really "beats" him down is a literal clone of him being controlled by Lex Luthor's voice-activated fightstick. Otherwise most of the fights don't feel like they are risks for him as much as "I need to prevent others from dying" puzzles.

 

[chuckdee]

... and, IMHO, a mistake. They call him the most powerful metahuman alive in the opening crawl ... he should feel like it in the movie.

Totally agree. That's one thing they did right in ZSJL... Everyone felt needed, but they didn't downgrade Superman. It toed the line where superman felt super but he also didn't feel alone.

 

[chuckdee]

Exactly. Whatever the flaws in the details of the movie, Superman as an empathetic hero out to save lives has finally made a comeback. The fact that opening weekend is pointing to utterly trouncing the Snyder anti-hero version is vindicating.

I didn't view the Snyder version as an 'anti-hero'.