Surprised while already in combat?

[William_2]

That character should not have been considered flat-footed.
Also, sticking to that rule does nothing to spoil the drama or cinematic nature of the attack, in my view. Still a creepy moment and a startled and spooked character (and, ideally, player...)- they just remain able to react because they are aware they are in combat.

 

[Corlon]

flat footed or not, sorcerers shouldn't be happy about anything getting near them .

As per the raw, no flat-footedness, then again that hide-feint thing could be an interesting house rule.

 

[Coredump]

I disagree. If the character was unaware, then he should be denied his dex bonus.

Granted, I might give him a spot check to see if he notices first.

 

[sullivan]

Flatfooted? Ya, I think he was thinking about denying Dex and got his wires crossed. "Flatfooted" once you are in combat is tough to create (requires a Faint, etc.). Given that the ghoul should have received a -4 penalty for attacking from prone, it shouldn't be to big a deal to drop dex from you AC. Or did the GM have the ghoul stand up before attacking and denied you your AoO because he claimed you were flatfooted?

EDIT: Count me in to for a Spot/Listen check to see if you notice.

 

[Darkness]

flat footed or not, sorcerers shouldn't be happy about anything getting near them .

Yeah. Not to mention something that paralyzes you if it hits and you fail a Fortitude save (and are not an elf).

 

[RigaMortus]

I disagree. If the character was unaware, then he should be denied his dex bonus.

Granted, I might give him a spot check to see if he notices first.

I am sure that the character was well aware once the ghoul popped out from behind the rock (unless the ghoul was some how invisible).

 

[Coredump]

I am sure that the character was well aware once the ghoul popped out from behind the rock (unless the ghoul was some how invisible).

That is what spot checks are all about.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I side with the DM on this one. Otherwise all characters can say "Sorry, Mr. Ghoul, the surprise round is over so I don't have to worry about being surprised - EVER! - in this encounter", which is just plain silly regardless of what the RAW states. Besides, that's what the DM is for (overruling the RAW when necessary).

However, I would have given the ghoul a hide check and the sorcerer a spot check to notice.

 

[buzz]

The main point is that, at the time the ghoul attacked, it was not hiding, nor benefitting form cover or concealment. Denying the sorcerer his Dex bonus to AC is a big gimme just because he may not have been aware where the ghoul was before it attacked him. IMO, this would make a skill like Hide way too powerful.

At the most, I could see giving the ghoul a "DM's buddy" +2 bonus to its attack, as I could see likening the situation to the sorcerer being flanked, i.e., unable to bring his full defenses to bear on the attacker. Even so, by the RAW (fun new acronym!), the ghoul would have had no bonus whatsoever. The only perq would be that the sorcerer had thought he was in a safe spot, but now has to contend with an attacker he didn't anticipate.

You know, my copy of HERO covers this kind of thing right in the combat chapter. Weird that this is such a sticky issue in D&D.

 

[Particle_Man]

Bad strategy on the ghoul's part. It should have waited until the first combat was over. At this point, it could wait 6 seconds, and then initiate a new combat session, and get a chance for surprise. Also, it would have caused any raging barbarians to have finished one of their rages (perhaps the last of the day) at the end of the first encounter, before the beginning of the second one.