Surprising Rule Synergy

[Gnome]

Great for Dragons too! It makes thier Buffs a fair bit harder to dispel.

Brutal Throw: STR to hit with a thrown weapon? Giant's bolders become a real threat, going from a threat to soft targets, to stone homing missles Combo that with quickdraw and lay the hurt down from a LONG was away. Snag a few large to huge bolas for when they get close, soak the -4 to hit and make sure the players never stay standing! -4 to touch means squat to giant and makes a great choice for the secondary or third attack.

Quickdraw? Do your giants have a quiver of boulders handy or something?

 

[KarinsDad]

No, actualy my arguement is why can't I chose to charge and not attack? There's no reason I can't charge forward, not attack, and leave myself vulnerable?

You mean other than the fact that the Charge action includes movement and an attack?

 

[KarinsDad]

Check the equipment section

Thanks for pointing that out Frank. I purposely looked there (and in several other sections) and totally missed it. So, no flying in medium and heavy barding. Check.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You mean other than the fact that the Charge action includes movement and an attack?

Let's say I take the Charge action, intending to Charge 60 feet to attack an opponent at the end of a corridor.

Halfway there, I get to a point where I can see the portcullis poised to drop and separate me from my comrades if I carry on.

Can I elect to cease moving before I pass the portcullis?

What if I don't see the portcullis, but it falls in front of me, blocking the straight line of my charge?

What if it's not a portcullis, but rather a Blade Barrier that springs into being say fifteen feet in front of me? It is possible for me to continue my movement towards my target, but I will take lots of damage and potentially die in doing so. May I cease moving?

-Hyp.

 

[Bront]

You mean other than the fact that the Charge action includes movement and an attack?

You May attack. You may not, and simply chose to look stupid run up to someone in a reckless manor.

What if you get tripped before you can make the charging attack? Are you forced to attack prone?

If you're somehow prevented from attacking, is it no longer considered a charge then, since you didn't fufill it fully?

 

[KarinsDad]

Let's say I take the Charge action, intending to Charge 60 feet to attack an opponent at the end of a corridor.

Halfway there, I get to a point where I can see the portcullis poised to drop and separate me from my comrades if I carry on.

Can I elect to cease moving before I pass the portcullis?

Ok, I'll concede the point that a character can decide to attack or not.

However, my questions still stand (which have not been answered):

1) Is the penalty to AC applied if no attack was made on a declared charge considering that the penalty is listed in the attack section of charging (not the movement section of charging) and charging is in the special attack section?

2) And if the penalty to AC is applied, would it require the rider to do a "Fighting with a Warhorse" when mounted because the horse is doing the actual charging? In other words, is the very act of charging considered an attack (since if you apply the penalty, you are using the attack section of the charging rules and charging itself is listed under special attacks)? Isn't the horse required to at least be able to attack in order for the rider to declare a charge if the rider intends to attack?

3) If the penalty to AC is not applied, then how is this different than a double move? Could a character not just double move and decide at the end whether it was a charge or not (as long as he followed the other movement rules for charging)? Or alternatively, why wouldn't a character just declare a charge any time he is moving more than a speed amount (and charging seems reasonable for the situation) and then renege on the charge later in the movement if there is no penalty for the movement?


The issue I am having is that if you rule that the horse can charge, but is not making an attack and "Fighting with a Warhorse" is not required for the rider to attack, then this is not RAW. This means that the horse is doing a special attack, but not really doing an attack. It's kind of like a free pass.

DM: "What are you doing?"
Player: "I am charging on my horse."
DM: "Make a Fighter With a Warhorse Riding roll."
Player: "I do not have to. The horse is charging, but it is not really attacking. So, only my PC is attacking." (ignore the man behind the currents, charging is not really attacking for the horse, it is moving)

Huh?


Now, compare this to Aid Another. It is not an attack action (i.e. nobody gets damaged, especially in the boost AC case), but isn't the very act of doing it still considered an attack even though no attack action is actually performed (a standard action is performed)?

Note: I am differentiating between an attack and an attack action here.

Fight with Warhorse: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.

Note the difference here. It is not that the mount is given an attack action, it is given an attack. This could be Charge, Aid Another, etc.

Not all attacks require attack actions. If the horse is charging, it is still attacking. If it does not make the "single attack action", it still charged (and hence, still attacked).

According to RAW, not according to how most people play it.

 

[Bront]

If more than one party is involved in a charge (Mount and rider), all should be subject to the -2 over the entire course of the charge.

 

[irishfast]

You May attack. You may not, and simply chose to look stupid run up to someone in a reckless manor.

i hate it when i run up to someone in a careless house.

 

[RigaMortus2]

1) Is the penalty to AC applied if no attack was made on a declared charge considering that the penalty is listed in the attack section of charging (not the movement section of charging) and charging is in the special attack section?

Well.. What happens if you charge someone (with the initial intent to attack them). As you charge at him, you provoke an AoO by an enemy (who happens to have reach). Does he get to make an attack roll on you and apply the -2 penalty to your armor, or since you haven't actually attacked yet, he doesn't get it? If it DOES apply, what happens if you decide NOT to attack once you get up to the enemy you were charging? If it DOES NOT apply, what happens if you DO attack the enemy you were charging? You can't make it retroactive, right?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well.. What happens if you charge someone (with the initial intent to attack them). As you charge at him, you provoke an AoO by an enemy (who happens to have reach). Does he get to make an attack roll on you and apply the -2 penalty to your armor, or since you haven't actually attacked yet, he doesn't get it?

As far as I can tell, he doesn't get it. The Charge action doesn't impose the -2 penalty to AC; the single attack you make after moving, as part of the Charge action, imposes the penalty. While you are still moving and before you make the attack, the penalty is yet to be imposed.

-Hyp.