Swapping Bard for Rogue

[Tyler Dunn]

So I have the following party

Variant human abjurer wizard
Half Elf Oath of the Ancients Paladin
Hill Dwarf Tempest Cleric
Variant Human Battlemaster Fighter (Archery fighting style)
Variant Human Lore Bard

The Bard took the criminal background to fill the role of a rogue, but I'm worried that our party does not have enough dpr. Should the bard switch to a rogue to giev the party more dpr, or does my party have enough dpr as it is?

 

[CTurbo]

So I have the following party

Variant human abjurer wizard
Half Elf Oath of the Ancients Paladin
Hill Dwarf Tempest Cleric
Variant Human Battlemaster Fighter (Archery fighting style)
Variant Human Lore Bard

The Bard took the criminal background to fill the role of a rogue, but I'm worried that our party does not have enough dpr. Should the bard switch to a rogue to giev the party more dpr, or does my party have enough dpr as it is?

The party looks fine to me. The Bard can be a Bard and everything will be great. I don't see a lack of DPR in a group with Archer Fighter, Paladin, and Tempest Cleric. In fact, I'd say that's an extremely well balanced party. I would actually choose Bard over Rogue.

 

[5ekyu]

As always play what is the most fun for you. The party setup seems fine and the bard's buffs and other spells can do great for it.

 

[AkaKageWarrior]

I agree to all of the above.
Skill-wise the bard is at least as good as the rogue, has lots of versatility through spells and class abilities.
And later on, if necessary, grab some damage spells.
How many sneak attacks do you need to get on par with 1 fireball?

 

[Dausuul]

You have a paladin, an archer fighter, and a wizard. You are very well equipped to lay down plenty of damage, and you have a good spread of "styles" as well; the paladin for melee (backed up by the tempest cleric), the fighter for ranged single-target, the wizard for AoE. Why do you feel you are short on DPR?

Now, if you personally feel unsatisfied with the bard's DPR, and prefer laying down the smack to debuffing your foes, by all means switch. But from an optimization perspective, the bard is a better choice.

 

[Blue]

Ignore this, meant to hit reply to the OP. Mis-click.

 

[Blue]

So I have the following party

Variant human abjurer wizard
Half Elf Oath of the Ancients Paladin
Hill Dwarf Tempest Cleric
Variant Human Battlemaster Fighter (Archery fighting style)
Variant Human Lore Bard

The Bard took the criminal background to fill the role of a rogue, but I'm worried that our party does not have enough dpr. Should the bard switch to a rogue to giev the party more dpr, or does my party have enough dpr as it is?

I really think that would be a large downtick for the party.

DPR has but one goal - killing the others before they kill you. Damage is utterly meaningless except for the killing blow, so the only goal of DPR characters is killing sooner - action denial for your opponent.

Bard is already good at both direct action denial, soft action denial, and acting as a force multiplier for your existing DPR characters. They have crowd control (half their spell list), debuff (cutting words, more spells) and buffing (inspiration, much of the rest of their spell list).

Since the party already has a good amount of DPR for the bard to multiply, swapping that out for just another DPR character would be a big hit to what the party as a whole does. Because of that synergy, a bard does more to help then yet another character focusing on damage.

About the only problem is if you are trying to do damage as a lore bard - then you are ignoring the class' strengths to be a second fiddle, extra DPR. If you won't enjoy a character who isn't directly doing damage, then swap out. You'll have more fun.

But otherwise, a bard will add a lot more to your party then yet another in an already covered DPR role.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I really think that would be a large downtick for the party.

DPR has but one goal - killing the others before they kill you. Damage is utterly meaningless except for the killing blow, so the only goal of DPR characters is killing sooner - action denial for your opponent.

Bard is already good at both direct action denial, soft action denial, and acting as a force multiplier for your existing DPR characters. They have crowd control (half their spell list), debuff (cutting words, more spells) and buffing (inspiration, much of the rest of their spell list).

Since the party already has a good amount of DPR for the bard to multiply, swapping that out for just another DPR character would be a big hit to what the party as a whole does. Because of that synergy, a bard does more to help then yet another character focusing on damage.

About the only problem is if you are trying to do damage as a lore bard - then you are ignoring the class' strengths to be a second fiddle, extra DPR. If you won't enjoy a character who isn't directly doing damage, then swap out. You'll have more fun.

But otherwise, a bard will add a lot more to your party then yet another in an already covered DPR role.

Hmmh. A lore batd can meaningfully add to the damage of the party. At level 6 he gets fireball if he likes and haste if he wishes to personally do domething or enhance a different character.
Of course that should only be one of your options since what you really want to be as a bard is being a swiss army knife.

 

[Blue]

Hmmh. A lore batd can meaningfully add to the damage of the party. At level 6 he gets fireball if he likes and haste if he wishes to personally do domething or enhance a different character.
Of course that should only be one of your options since what you really want to be as a bard is being a swiss army knife.

True, it's not that bards can't do any damage. And they can spend their class feature to get a smattering of the better direct damage spells that other classes get natively. Such as the wizard, and to some degree the tempest cleric in the party.

Let me restate to make my intent clearer - if the OP is primarily interested in doing direct damage I would switch because that's not the lore bard's strength compared to other classes.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

True, it's not that bards can't do any damage. And they can spend their class feature to get a smattering of the better direct damage spells that other classes get natively. Such as the wizard, and to some degree the tempest cleric in the party.

Let me restate to make my intent clearer - if the OP is primarily interested in doing direct damage I would switch because that's not the lore bard's strength compared to other classes.

You are probably right. But a well built lore bard can do enough damage compared to a rogue. Just not over an extended period of time and probably you are doing more damage by enhancing your allies.