D&D 5E Swashbuckler/warlock multi class

[Todd Roybark]

Shadow blade is good without any upcasting.

One is tortilla chips, the other is nachos.

Chips <Nachos

 

[doctorbadwolf]

One is tortilla chips, the other is nachos.

Chips ⚖ <Nachos

Idk, IMO Shadowblade, while better upcast than a lot of spells, is still not as good a 3rd level spell as just about any actual 3rd level spell.

So...it’s like getting slightly better chips for the price of good nachos, I guess?

 

[phantomK9]

Playing this combo in a game right now. Having fun so far.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I’m glad it is fun for the player and the group. Both Rogue and Warlock are great 2 level dip classes. The player, however, would have certain advantages now, by being a single class character, instead.

A 6th level Rogue would have an extra helping of Expertise goodness and Uncanny Dodge, and an extra 1d6 Sneak Attack.

A 6th level Warlock could already be casting an upcast 3rd level slot Shadow Blade and be attacking twice per round with the Thirsting Blade Invocation. Two attacks with SB is going to typically out perform SA, in damage output, at 6th level.

The oft talked about state of grace that is an upcast Shadow Blade, being used to attack with Booming Blade and Sneak Attack is nice, but mainly the domain of the Arcane Trickster.

Other characters need to consider wether to prioritize damage dice from upcasting Shadow Blade or taking levels in Rogue to improve Sneak Attack.

With the few spell slots a Warlock has, capping at 5th level slots; the Warlock just isn’t as good with the Shadow Blade spell as other classes.

A Sorcerer or Wizard using a 7th level slot to upcast Shadow Blade has a similar damage output as a 16th level Sneak Attack, with no other damage riders on the Sneak Attack,( E.G. no Booming Blade etc).

This is exactly why I never end up actually multiclassing, even though it's fun to think about the interesting combos.

 

[FrogReaver]

Warlocks add a lot for rogues out of combat options. In combat though there isn’t a ton of synergy.

I mean a rogue dip into warlock is okay. But heavy investment is rough.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

This is exactly why I never end up actually multiclassing, even though it's fun to think about the interesting combos.

Yeah, I have one MC character who MCed early on, and it was kinda rough until about level 9, even though it's a really good combination. Swashbuckler/Bladesinger doesn't work quite as naturally as Swashlock (Hexbuckler? MC combbo naming is basically just fandom ship naming), but it still kicks ass. But at early levels it was hard not to think all the time about how I was missing out on things like Uncanny Dodge, and 3rd level spells.

A custom feat I worked out with my DM that lets me treat my rogue levels as if my subclass was Arcane Trickster, but treat my MC spellcaster level as my wizard level for learning spells has helped (i only learn new spells on levels where I gain spell slots), but even with that and reaching a level where the build is really coming together, it woulda been easier to just play a single class.

 

[Campbell]

I am playing a similar build right now. Eladrin Swashbuckler 7 / Draconic Sorcerer 6. I went with this build mostly because I wanted to play up his connection to the elements and liked the idea that he had divided loyalties. He is an emissary of faerie courts.

The combination plays pretty well in my opinion. The power behind the build lays more in cantrips and sorcerer points than spells cast from slots. A good amount of spell slots usually go back into sorcery points.

Basically it relies on Twin Spell paired with Booming Blade or Quicken Spell with Greenflame Blade to apply additional pressure as needed and make sure I can get a successful sneak attack every round. It's a very mobile build, decent defense, with decent control. My AC is 20 thanks to Draconic Resilience and Bracers of Defense. I keep low level slots available for Shield which brings my AC to 25 for one round. I often use Misty Step for additional mobility when required, but try to stick with Fey Step or bonus action Dash whenever I can.

I generally will use 3rd level Shadowblade for big fights where I plan on dumping a lot of sorcery points for additional attacks. Otherwise I tend to save my slots for sorcery points although I will occasionally throw out Slow or use Counterspell when it will make an impact.

We have a full fledged Wild Magic Sorcerer who tends to handle the artillery strikes and utility magic. Overall it is pretty magic heavy group. My role in combat tends to be going after annoying priority targets alongside our Warlock. Outside of combat I primarily rely on my social skills and acrobatics. Basically I'm Nightcrawler.

Here's our group composition:

• Dwarven Tempest Cleric 2 / Circle of the Stars Druid 11
• Tiefling Celestial Warlock 11 / Cleric 2
• Luxodon Wild Magic Sorcerer 13
• Eladrin Swashbuckler 7 / Draconic Sorcerer 6 (Me)
• Warforged Battlesmith Artificer 13
• Dragonborn Brute Fighter 11 / Ranger 2

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Idk, IMO Shadowblade, while better upcast than a lot of spells, is still not as good a 3rd level spell as just about any actual 3rd level spell.

So...it’s like getting slightly better chips for the price of good nachos, I guess?

Basically it is a spell on the Wizard list so Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters can get it and it really is one of the best uses of their third level spell slots at the very high level where they finally get them. Certainly, along with Haste, upcasting Shadow Blade is the main use of that spell slot that synergizes the most with their primary class abilities, and it's one of the options that doesn't require a good casting stat. The best choice is going to be situational. And there is the issue that while a high level Eldritch Knight action surging 6 3d8 Shadow Blade attacks is often the optimal move, so far as level 3 spell slots go it's never going to have the coolness factor of him shooting off a Fireball into the room, looking, not being quite satisfied with the devastation, and then deciding he'd like to Action Surge for another Fireball. It is good for a lot of gishy multiclasses as well (especially since they often have higher spell slots than they have spells, so they're going to be upcasting something).

But a straight full caster should stay the hell away from it unless they are a Bladesinger, and even then it should be a sometimes thing or something they just do because carrying around an actual sword is beneath them. Which brings us to the oddness of being able to upcast to 5th or 7th level, because nobody who has the spell slots to do that ever should (unless some pissant street thug pulls a blade on you, in which case "you call that a knife").

So, I don't know, more like nachos with extra mild salsa for people who can't eat spicy foods.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

The darkness isn't as bad as people think for your own party. If the enemy is in darkness, then people attacking them have the same chance to hit as they did before. The attacker can't see the target, so they get disadvantage, but the target cannot see the attacker, so the attacker gains advantage. These cancel out. Other rogues can still sneak attack when the enemy has an ally of the attacker next to them. This works because the rogue does not have disadvantage, as it was canceled by advantage.

If your whole party has advantage before you drop the darkness ( fairie fire or something as an example ) then it may not be worth while for you to engage in melee, and you have plenty of ranged sneak attack options available as a rogue and can enjoy the party wide advantage source.