Swift spell as Standard Action?

[Artoomis]

Of course, this would be legal:

1. A Bard could cast "Dimensional Leap" (Swift Action) to escape from being swallowed. Fail the concentration check and lose the spell.

2. Use any metamagic to change the casting time to a Full Round Action (because the bard is a spontaneous caster) and cast it again.

However, there is no way within the rules to otherwise "slow down" the casting time to a Standard Action. <sigh>

Of course, the rule actually is, "Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell’s normal casting time is 1 standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn’t the same as a 1-round casting time.)"

I guess one could argue that applying metamagic to a Swift Action spell should make it a Standard Action. It's not covered by the rule.

This discussion keeps seeming to come back to the Quicken Spell feat -it might be much better to instead simply focus on Swift spells in general without concern for how it became a Swift Spell.

This is absolutely NOT about un-metagicking a spell. That's merely a side-effect of allowing a Swift spell to be cast as a Standard Action.

 

[KarinsDad]

Of course, this would be legal:

1. A Bard could cast "Dimensional Leap" (Swift Action) to escape from being swallowed. Fail the concentration check and lose the spell.

2. Use any metamagic to change the casting time to a Full Round Action (because the bard is a spontaneous caster) and cast it again.

However, there is no way within the rules to otherwise "slow down" the casting time to a Standard Action. <sigh>

Actually, there are no explicit rules that state how much longer it takes to do this. So, what your propose here is not completely rules legal.

They can choose when they cast their spells whether to apply their metamagic feats to improve them. As with other spellcasters, the improved spell uses up a higher-level spell slot. But because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot. Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell’s normal casting time is 1 action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn’t the same as a 1-round casting time.) For a spell with a longer casting time, it takes an extra full-round action to cast the spell.

An interpretation that it takes an extra full-round action to cast the spell is just as valid as one that it takes a full round action to cast the spell or one that it takes a standard action to cast the spell.

 

[Artoomis]

Actually, there are no explicit rules that state how much longer it takes to do this. So, what your propose here is not completely rules legal.



An interpretation that it takes an extra full-round action to cast the spell is just as valid as one that it takes a full round action to cast the spell or one that it takes a standard action to cast the spell.

Sometimes I think you argue with me as a knee jerk response.

I DID state, "I guess one could argue that applying metamagic to a Swift Action spell should make it a Standard Action. It's not covered by the rule." and I ALSO quoted the actual rule.

 

[Infiniti2000]

2. Use any metamagic to change the casting time to a Full Round Action (because the bard is a spontaneous caster) and cast it again.
...
I guess one could argue that applying metamagic to a Swift Action spell should make it a Standard Action. It's not covered by the rule.

If it's not a standard action (or less), then he can't use it in the scenario you proposed: "You can attempt to cast a spell while grappling or even while pinned (see below), provided its casting time is no more than 1 standard action..." This is the most annoying thing about metamagic IMO.

This discussion keeps seeming to come back to the Quicken Spell feat -it might be much better to instead simply focus on Swift spells in general without concern for how it became a Swift Spell.

Quite honestly, I feel that that approach makes it even less desirable to allow this house rule. Spells designed as Swift are not designed to be cast more than once per round, period. They are also not designed to be cast with any other Swift spell, period. You've now broken the design. It might not do any harm (no one has brought forth an argument that it does, to your credit), but it's certainly not intended.

This is absolutely NOT about un-metagicking a spell. That's merely a side-effect of allowing a Swift spell to be cast as a Standard Action.

That's your opinion and many of us feel that it is, in fact, about un-metamagicking a spell. That's why we find Hyp's Energy Sub example so pertinent.

 

[KarinsDad]

Sometimes I think you argue with me as a knee jerk response.

Can I help it if you pick the wrong POV to support most of the time?

But, no worries. There are people here that often do that to me as well.

I DID state, "I guess one could argue that applying metamagic to a Swift Action spell should make it a Standard Action. It's not covered by the rule." and I ALSO quoted the actual rule.

Yes, but you did not state that any interpretation that increases the time is valid. The only rule is that the time actually increases, hence, your "legal" interpretation is not the only possible one (and of course, upping it to a full round action would be illegal in a grapple anyway).

 

[Dracorat]

I think this topic proves that either way you roll, the issue is certainly arguable and justifyable from either side of the fence. So, in response to what started it all, the best response is probably do what you feel is best.

 

[irdeggman]

Of course, this would be legal:

1. A Bard could cast "Dimensional Leap" (Swift Action) to escape from being swallowed. Fail the concentration check and lose the spell.

How could the bard cast Dimensional Leap (a standard casting time spell - unless it has been erratad) as a swift spell in the first place? The Quicken Spell feat expressly forbids spontaneous casters from using it. There are a couple of feats that allow it to be done - but either as a once a day use or via forcing the spell into a memorized spell (just like a wizard).

 

[Wish]

The bard can cast Dimensional Leap because it's not the same spell as Quickened Dimension Door.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The bard can cast Dimensional Leap because it's not the same spell as Quickened Dimension Door.

Yes, but Dimension Leap in Magic of Eberron has, as I understand, a standard action casting time... not a swift action.

To cast it as a swift action would require a Quickened Dimension Leap, in a 6th level slot, and a Bard can't use Quicken Spell.

(To be fair, I don't have the book in front of me, so I could be misinformed as to the casting time.)

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

Yes, but Dimension Leap in Magic of Eberron has, as I understand, a standard action casting time... not a swift action.

To cast it as a swift action would require a Quickened Dimension Leap, in a 6th level slot, and a Bard can't use Quicken Spell.

(To be fair, I don't have the book in front of me, so I could be misinformed as to the casting time.)

-Hyp.

If it is indeed a Standard Action, then I messed up when i copied the spell to my character sheet. It does not change this debate in any way, but does mean I was flat out wrong in what I did - whoops! It would have made no difference, though.

Okay, then, would someone with Magic of Eberron look this up (do not report from memory) please) and let me know if I was wrong and it is a Standard Action to cast Dimensional Leap?

Note that at the very beginning of this thread I did mention I might not have the casting time correct.