switching a versatile weapon between 1h and 2h, what action?

[keterys]

At least if you let someone do it as a minor action, then it stops you from switching many times per round for opportunity attacks, aegis, etc.

Or from just using a fullblade that they ready as a free when you attack, remove as a free when you are attacked.

 

[keterys]

Seems odd to me to limit free actions to once per round or once per kind of action.

Absolutely agree - it should only be restricted as appropriate for the type of action.

So drop something in both hands? Sure. Grip a weapon in one hand or two hands? Sure.

Drop 200 things, one by one? Definitely not.

Change your grip twice (or four, or six, or eight times) in a round to eke in an extra point of damage? Depends. Eight is certainly starting to get silly, so where is the line drawn?

But as a player, I don't see a reason to do it. As a DM, I see no reason to allow it. If a class has a restriction, then using a rules loophole to get around that restriction isn't necessarily good gaming. If you're in a tournament, then you find every advantage you can.

For a home game, making the game easier doesn't necessarily make it more fun, and doing something that is questionable that might cause _any_ member of the table to be less comfortable with the tactic is not worth it. At all.

So, if WotC wants people to free action switch grips to and fro every time they make an attack (and I've made 12 attacks in one round with a character due to opportunity attacks and a warlord - that'd be 24 grip changes), then all they have to do is state it. In the meantime I don't see a need to give swordmages a +1 damage for doing this any more than I see a need to give a +1 damage to fighters using shields because well, let's be honest, they don't need to fully drop their shield to just get a hand on their weapon so all they need to do is grip it _really briefly_.

Obviously, some people think differently.

 

[Patlin]

At least if you let someone do it as a minor action, then it stops you from switching many times per round for opportunity attacks, aegis, etc.

Or from just using a fullblade that they ready as a free when you attack, remove as a free when you are attacked.

Free actions can only be done on your own turn. I think it would have to be a non-action to be as abusable as you suggest.

That is, if it even is an abuse. Looking at my swordmage character sheet, it would increase my first level encounter power (Lightning Clash) from 1[w]+int and 1d6+int to 1[w]+int+1 and 1d6+int. Factor off whatever portion you find apropriate due to needing to make two attack rolls. Compared to my Paladin's encounter power (Piercing Smite) of 2[w]+str the Swordmage is definitely light on damage, even with the +1.

Versatile is a nearly useless weapon traight. If the swordmage can make some minimal use of it, he's saving the traight from being a complete waste of space in the PHB, and he should be encouraged.

 

[keterys]

You can do a free action whenever you want. There is no such 'only on your turn' restriction.

Swordmages are quite effective without the +1 damage. Attempting to argue otherwise only condemns the argument that the +1 damage isn't meaningful.

For example, Lightning Clash can hit a second target, which boosts its damage past that of the paladin's 2W.

 

[Griogre]

Free actions can only be done on your own turn. I think it would have to be a non-action to be as abusable as you suggest.

As mentioned this is not correct:

Free Action: Free actions take almost no time or effort. You can take as many free actions as you want during your or another combatant’s turn. The DM can restrict the number of free actions in a turn.

The changing of a grip, if it is considered a free action, has no limit other than the DM's restriction on it.

 

[Patlin]

As mentioned this is not correct:

The changing of a grip, if it is considered a free action, has no limit other than the DM's restriction on it.

Ouch. Was I confusing that with 3.5? Sorry for the wrong info!

 

[elecgraystone]

So, if WotC wants people to free action switch grips to and fro every time they make an attack (and I've made 12 attacks in one round with a character due to opportunity attacks and a warlord - that'd be 24 grip changes), then all they have to do is state it. In the meantime I don't see a need to give swordmages a +1 damage for doing this any more than I see a need to give a +1 damage to fighters using shields because well, let's be honest, they don't need to fully drop their shield to just get a hand on their weapon so all they need to do is grip it _really briefly_.

Obviously, some people think differently.

Well, WOTC FAQ already said that it's a free action to switch grips and as already pointed out free actions take almost no time and can be done anytime. Seems to me WOTC has already said you can switch grips whenever you want as many times as you want.

I'll admit, I've never had more than three attacks in a round so I wouldn't know about 12. I'd have no problem with a DM putting a limit on the total number of free actions a person could take in one round. However, I'd want it to be a logical limit, not one JUST made to limit the swordmage. As long as it's constant for everyone, it's all good.

 

[keterys]

whenever you want as many times as you want.

No, they've explicitly said you can't do it as many times as you want. It's in the definition of free action. We already know you can't switch grips, say, 1000 times. I'd guess you couldn't switch grips more than, say, six times, since there are six seconds in a round.

Of course, I have no idea how you'd even do it that many times, since you need time to swing, parry, etc. So, less than 6...

I've never had to rule or make the decision at all, but I can say that at every table I've sat at that it's come up at, the DM has ruled you can switch once per round - either getting the +1 damage or the +2 AC.

And I never had to offer my opinion on the matter.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well my point is one of:
Though I think you should be able to do it (and get both bonuses), by RAW it's up to the DM, so there will be tables which will say no and it's perfectly legal by RAW.

 

[elecgraystone]

No, they've explicitly said you can't do it as many times as you want. It's in the definition of free action. We already know you can't switch grips, say, 1000 times. I'd guess you couldn't switch grips more than, say, six times, since there are six seconds in a round.

PH pg 267 and the FAQ seems to disagree with you. "You can take as many free actions as you want during your or another combatants turn." The FAQ states that changing grips is a free action. So by WOTC RAW, you can change grips as often as you wish. Now a DM can limit the number of free actions you can use, but RAW doesn't say you can limit JUST the number of grip changes.

As far as the 'switch once per round' thing. That doesn't make much sense to me. How do you limit one type of free action to once in a round without doing the same for others? It's not consistent unless you have a hard limit of only 1 free action per round. If you don't then you should be able to make as many grip changes as you are allowed free action for the round.

In response to Danceofmasks, the DM may limit the number of free actions, NOT limit the number of grip changes (by RAW). So as I pointed out to keterys, unless the DM has set a limit of only 1 free action per round, he isn't following RAW by limiting only 1 grip change per round.